[megabear]

Evidently, this little technique is used against the drug crowd quite often. It's now been expanded into the white collar financial crimes. I don't like Enron or Fastow (although I think he's the scapegoat here big time). But, when he wanted to fight his case; they went after his wife and told him his kids would essentially be orphaned unless he pleaded guilty. He caved in and took 10 years in the bargain to leave his wife and kids alone. The article from the FT is subscriber only; but here a small excerpt:

>>Prosecutors go after 'wife and kids'
By Joshua Chaffin
Published: January 13 2004 21:42 | Last Updated: January 13 2004 21:42


For more than a year, Andrew Fastow (pictured), the former chief financial officer of Enron, resisted federal prosecutors. Even as they piled up nearly 100 criminal charges against him that threatened to send him to prison for the rest of his life, Mr Fastow doggedly maintained his innocence.


But last week, the former executive had a change of heart, one apparently hastened by the prospect of seeing his college sweetheart behind bars.

Just as a judge in Houston began jury selection for the trial of his wife, Lea Fastow, on related criminal charges, Mr Fastow tentatively agreed to plead guilty and accept a 10-year sentence in a bid to win leniency for her.

"Ultimately, the only way that Fastow was brought to the table was when he saw the possibility of his kids being 'orphaned', and that pressure did not become sufficiently intense until the eve of his wife's trial," said Chris Bebel, a former federal prosecutor now in private practice in Houston.<<

[Madame Wrecked Him]

Megabear, I'm curious what makes you think Fastow is a scapegoat in this whole affair and not just the forerunner before they move on to the bigger fish?

I haven't been following the case closely, and I do believe in general in presumed innocence. With plea bargaining I do see the potential trade-off between taking a lesser sentence and avoiding a lengthy trial and potentially longer sentence, which might be a hard, but practical, decision for an innocent person. But having said that, I find it hard to believe that only Skilling and Lay were the really bad guys. It seems more likely to me that the Enron fraud was perpetrated by a whole group of rotten people, encouraged by a culture and leadership style that was defined by the top.

Also, with the point clearly made in the Martha Stewart case that the materiality of the $ amount of the supposed crime is overriden by the principle that a crime was committed, why shouldn't that same principle be applied to everyone who has been accused of corporate wrongdoing and not just the very top?

[Howl]

In the middle-ages, they used to get confessions by torturing the accused. Nowadays, people are not threatened anymore with physical torture. But for the rest, nothing has changed. About 10% of anyone convicted for a crime is innocent. Recent DNA research into death-row cases has confirmed this.

Now, don't get me wrong. Andrew Fastow is probably guilty as hell. But if this is the way to take a few criminals off the streets, what does it tell about the justice system?

[Sphinxter]

mdporter, on Jan 16 2004, 01:13 AM, said:

Obviously, the feds had enough on the guy and his wife to make him cave in finally. the man helped to plunder a public company, and he should do some hard time for his crimes. If his wife is guilty she should do time.

Why should we care about his kids? He and his wife obviously didn't. The whole family is now learning that actions have consequences.

Ken Lay really needs to go to prison too. it's just wrong that that guy is out still playing golf, but martha stewart is getting an enema over a few thousand shares of crappy stock.

You know what I hate?

I hate that there are deadheads in long-term prison sentences for pot and nobody thinks to write long, anguished articles about how they are "going to miss their families".

USA today had just such an article up about these white-collar crooks and really told their side of the story. What it will mean to them to miss seeing their kids grow up, etc.

Oh cry me a river!

In China the bigger the crime the bigger the time. From what little I've gleaned from the papers I believe the threshold for a death sentence is about $50k no matter if it was a white-collar or blue-collar crime. Guilty? So sorry.

In the USA, Justice is a middle class illusion. The rich know better and so do the poor folks.

All of these folks need to go to prison for 35 year sentences and it needs to be extremely public. And painful.

[megabear]

I've got no problem with the SOB going to prison; or any of the other guys who royally screwed the workerbees. What I do have a problem with is using blackmail to make it happen. If the justice system really upheld justice this would not be necessary. The damn lawyers have gotten so expert at representing the criminal that the prosecuting arm of the justice system has had to lower itself to using things like blackmail to accomplish their ends. Where do we go from here?

[Howl]

And how does putting the Enron crooks in jail help all those employees who lost their pensions in the Enron debacle? It does not help all the employees in other companies whose pension funds are terribly underfunded. Why aren't the CEO's in those companies being prosecuted?

And what about those politicians in congress who made all of this possible? The same shit happened around 1930. After that laws were passed which made this shit impossible. In the last two decades, many of these laws have been scrapped again. The politicians who did this received lavish campaign contributions. Why is no one being prosecuted for this bribery?

The whole Enron trial is just a show trial. They just took a small part of the rotten system and put that on trial. They forced a confession from Fastow through blackmail. And now anyone can pretend that justice is being done.

[The brown one]

yobob1, on Jan 18 2004, 04:24 PM, said:

I don't know if I would call it blackmail if they had the goods on his wife. I would call it bargaining for cooperation, almost a form of leniency in respect to Fastow's family. If they had the goods on his wife, would you have preferred they prosecute and incarcerate both perhaps at the expense of not being able to do the same to those higher up the food chain? Of course one must also question what form of "loyalty" would cause Fastow to clam up at this stage of the game. One would think he would almost be eager to spill his guts. Must be something pretty powerful in the hands of Lay and Skilling. Perhaps the blackmail lies in those hands.

As Fastow is now pleading guilty,does it mean that Enron's filthy laundry will not be aired in public?

[megabear]

Excellent question The Brown One. There is always so much more to these stories than meet the public eye.

[DrStool]

Blackmail? Puhleeze. The wife is guilty as sin too.

Gimme a break. They should lock them both up and throw away the key.

[T_Minus]

yobob1, on Jan 18 2004, 05:24 AM, said:

I don't know if I would call it blackmail if they had the goods on his wife. I would call it bargaining for cooperation, almost a form of leniency in respect to Fastow's family. If they had the goods on his wife, would you have preferred they prosecute and incarcerate both perhaps at the expense of not being able to do the same to those higher up the food chain? Of course one must also question what form of "loyalty" would cause Fastow to clam up at this stage of the game. One would think he would almost be eager to spill his guts. Must be something pretty powerful in the hands of Lay and Skilling. Perhaps the blackmail lies in those hands.

Really. Think obvious. Really, really obvious. The Monkey said:
"I don't really think you should charge me with anything, or certain documents will go walking." Needless to say, that filled the prosecutors with righteous fury, that anyone would threaten Lord and Lady Lay. So they needed to threaten him, really, really threaten him. Not to make him talk. To make sure he DIDN'T TALK. That's what this whole operation was about. Putting a figurehead in jail while making sure he didn't name names during the "trial". As for this absolute justice with the wife. Does it matter why you do something? You bet it does.

As for this:
One would think he would almost be eager to spill his guts. Must be something pretty powerful in the hands of Lay and Skilling. Perhaps the blackmail lies in those hands.

Are you suggesting the prosecutors could get off bended knee long enough before Lord and Lady Lay to actually question them? HA! Commoner!

[DrStool]

T Minus-

Your rhetoric, and not so veiled attacks on your fellow stoolies, are really beginning to annoy me. Observe some basic rules of civility, or I will enforce them so that you have no choice.

[megabear]

Deemed guilty with no fair trail; doesn't sound much like the United States that Jefferson envisioned. Even criminals deserve a fair trail; that's what makes a system of true justice work. It's easy to be swayed by the urge to forego the right of a fair trail in cases that the majority of the public feels the defendents are obviously guilty; but isn't that just mob rule? IMO, scumbags and terrorists deserve a fair trail like anyone else. Now, if the scumbags get off because we have scumbag (lawyers and judges) working inside the justice system that's another problem. But, a justice system that does not offer the same rights to EVERY individual is not a "justice system" at all.

[Pee Brain]

many, many of the investors and employees (most likely into the next generation) will be paying for ENRON well beyond 10 years (or 5 if he can get out early). hey, a guy goes in a bank and sticks a gun in the teller's face and walks out with a few hundred or a few thousand and gets 20 years. this guy was part of an historic, massive theft of livelihood, savings, pensions, and most of all trust and basic decency. ten years amortized over the 2 of them is 5 years each; if he gets out in 5, thats 2.5 years each.... wow, cry me a river. the only way this makes any sense is if he creams the rest of 'em with state's evidence.

when he gets out, he should spend the rest of his life making restitution and thanking god no one blew his frickin' head off. his bail should have been a jillion $, and he should be in the can NOW. they should allow the folks that got wiped out by ENRON to testify at his trial and televise it. these guys are big-time crooks.