Sign In
Register
Help
They did it while you were shocked and awed ha ha ha ha ha...
Bankruptcy
Shooting themselves in the foot...
Rate Topic:
#1
Hypertiger 
- Assistant Professor of Stock Proctology
-
- Group: Banned
- Posts: 3,270
- Joined: 16-July 02
Posted 22 March 2003 - 05:07 PM
"We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money (at the request of the consumer) we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system.... It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon." --Robert H. Hemphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank,1938...
MultiQuote
#2
strikerm3
- Master of Stock Proctology
-
- Group: Banned
- Posts: 1,533
- Joined: 05-January 03
Posted 22 March 2003 - 06:26 PM
Ridiculous. The protection of millionaires who put all there assets in their house is simply patheitic IMO Thanks for the article, the only positive I got out of it was that it might put this cocky jerk bankruptcy lawyer I know out of business.
#3
Yoshaviah
- Assistant Professor of Stock Proctology
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 3,309
- Joined: 26-November 01
Posted 22 March 2003 - 07:28 PM
This is an example of what the founders feared - that the banks and the corporations that grow up around them (the banks) will, through inflation and deflation (in the money supply), acquire all assets, those pledged as loan collateral, and future earnings (from wages). The economic system of the United States is thoroughly corrupt, as are its leaders, its people, and its laws. Let it serve as an example for future generations of how a corrupt money system breeds a corrupt society. The United States is now ripe for destruction. Its overthrow will come suddenly, without warning, and in harmony with the will of God; for he will not allow a nation to long endure that forsakes its widows and fatherless.
#4
Sphinxter
- Doctor of Stock Proctology
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 2,083
- Joined: 28-January 03
Posted 22 March 2003 - 08:47 PM
I missed it in the all the language devoted to single omthers in the midst of divroces - - - what happens to non-secured credit under this plan? Do credit card edbt holders risk their secured assets as a result?
Are the saying that Ch.11 no longer cleans your slate for a fresh start?
If so, does this mean the return of debtors prison is far behind?
Are the saying that Ch.11 no longer cleans your slate for a fresh start?
If so, does this mean the return of debtors prison is far behind?
#5
- Group: Guests
Posted 23 March 2003 - 01:17 PM
I don't know what the current bill will do exactly, but if it is similar to last year's bill it will mean that you will have to pass a means test before you can file Chapter 7. Chapter 13 filers are subjected to IRS guidelines (which the IRS doesn't even use anymore because it is seriously out of date) for expenses. Under current rules, you use actual expenses to determine what you can pay to creditors after expenses.
Follow the money on this one; who gave millions in campaign contributions to see this bill pass? Your friendly credit card companies(MNBA, CapOne, etc.) and money center banks. My guess is that if it passes the Senate (where it has hung up the last several sessions) there will be a flood of personal bankruptcies. If you file under the new law, you will never get out of debt, which is same as debtors prison.
Follow the money on this one; who gave millions in campaign contributions to see this bill pass? Your friendly credit card companies(MNBA, CapOne, etc.) and money center banks. My guess is that if it passes the Senate (where it has hung up the last several sessions) there will be a flood of personal bankruptcies. If you file under the new law, you will never get out of debt, which is same as debtors prison.
#6
FeedFool
- Clinical Professor of Stock Proctology
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 9,475
- Joined: 01-February 02
Posted 23 March 2003 - 04:19 PM
maxb3535, on Mar 23 2003, 12:17 PM, said:
If you file under the new law, you will never get out of debt, which is same as debtors prison
It only happens in America since it's a free country. Are there more Stoolpid peoples out there?
Free only for the crooks.
#7 Guest_Icky Twerp_*
Posted 23 March 2003 - 05:46 PM
Aren't we all ambivalent about this?
The skyrocketing debt figures reflect that lenders are going after non-credit worthy borrowers. That is called "predatory lending", but then don't we all believe in personal responsibility? Those people shouldn't take out those loans. They should show personal financial discipline, shouldn't they?
As much as I do feel sorry for those caught in this snare, isn't this the first step in the collapsing credit bubble we are all expecting? Isn't their misery just the first foretaste of what some large percentage of the population will encounter?
An owner of several used-car dealerships that rode on a plane next to me explained two things that made my blood run cold:
1) only 10% of adults are "credit worthy"
2) The average household has $8000 in credit card debt.
I'd suggest that households with credit card debt and no real credit -worthiness are poorly positioned to cope with a severe economic downturn. I'd assume, even more, that such people would also have a large house note and at least one large car-note.
So we are entering into a "distribution top", and this new law is just a signpost on the way down.
Will this bill really save JPM & C?
Was the exposure of Enron/Worldcom/Tyco, et al, the bottom of corporate malfeasance, or is there more to come?
The skyrocketing debt figures reflect that lenders are going after non-credit worthy borrowers. That is called "predatory lending", but then don't we all believe in personal responsibility? Those people shouldn't take out those loans. They should show personal financial discipline, shouldn't they?
As much as I do feel sorry for those caught in this snare, isn't this the first step in the collapsing credit bubble we are all expecting? Isn't their misery just the first foretaste of what some large percentage of the population will encounter?
An owner of several used-car dealerships that rode on a plane next to me explained two things that made my blood run cold:
1) only 10% of adults are "credit worthy"
2) The average household has $8000 in credit card debt.
I'd suggest that households with credit card debt and no real credit -worthiness are poorly positioned to cope with a severe economic downturn. I'd assume, even more, that such people would also have a large house note and at least one large car-note.
So we are entering into a "distribution top", and this new law is just a signpost on the way down.
Will this bill really save JPM & C?
Was the exposure of Enron/Worldcom/Tyco, et al, the bottom of corporate malfeasance, or is there more to come?
#8
StrawDaddy
- Stock Proctology Intern
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 103
- Joined: 07-August 02
Posted 23 March 2003 - 05:48 PM
This bill is truely biting the hand that feeds - but mayb it's just a sign of the times. Banks know in advance they'll be cutting down on credit so why not clamp down on those who are likely to default? If you're not planning on increasing consumer loans why would you care about the bad publicity surrounding your collection attempts?
#9
DogBoy
- Master of Stock Proctology
-
- Group: Banned
- Posts: 1,584
- Joined: 15-March 02
Posted 23 March 2003 - 07:49 PM
"Was the exposure of Enron/Worldcom/Tyco, et al, the bottom of corporate malfeasance, or is there more to come? "
More to come, lots more.
How about the WoOrld's biggest black box --- The General.
Wait until that baby is exposed to the light of day.
And the ones that are left are, like Enron,
TOO BIG TO FIX
which by the way is an OFFICIAL DOGBOY term. I invented on this site many months ago. No charge for reproduction.
This will become the motto of the US economy:
TOO BIG TO FIX
More to come, lots more.
How about the WoOrld's biggest black box --- The General.
Wait until that baby is exposed to the light of day.
And the ones that are left are, like Enron,
TOO BIG TO FIX
which by the way is an OFFICIAL DOGBOY term. I invented on this site many months ago. No charge for reproduction.
This will become the motto of the US economy:
TOO BIG TO FIX
#10
tpark
- Bachelor of Stock Proctology
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 584
- Joined: 09-March 03
Posted 23 March 2003 - 10:56 PM
Didn't Davidson and Rees-Mogg mention something about "making bankruptcy more difficult" in one of their books? I thought they'd been cooking something like this up for years, it's only recently that they had the political will to put it in place. Things are gonna get ugly.
#11
Pee Brain
- Assistant Professor of Stock Proctology
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 3,244
- Joined: 16-February 03
Posted 23 March 2003 - 11:06 PM
Icky Twerp, on Mar 23 2003, 04:46 PM, said:
1) only 10% of adults are "credit worthy"
IT,
can that really be correct?
Iat least we're all safe for now. thank God we're in a bowling alley.
#12
Bird D Durr
- Master of Stock Proctology
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 1,413
- Joined: 01-August 02
Posted 24 March 2003 - 08:35 PM
HEADS....................Bankruptcy attorneys WIN.....................
TAILS......................Bankrutcy attorneys WIN.......................
Same old..............Same old.................................................
TAILS......................Bankrutcy attorneys WIN.......................
Same old..............Same old.................................................
#13
MisterKrusty
- Stock Proctology Intern
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 37
- Joined: 10-January 03
Posted 28 March 2003 - 01:28 PM
Hyper - could you please post the exact URL for the link to the article. (or just post the text of the article) I am having technical difficulties opening your link
#14
Hypertiger
- Assistant Professor of Stock Proctology
-
- Group: Banned
- Posts: 3,270
- Joined: 16-July 02
Posted 28 March 2003 - 01:49 PM
"We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money (at the request of the consumer) we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system.... It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon." --Robert H. Hemphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank,1938...
#15
machinehead
- Dean of Stock Proctology
-
- Group: Members
- Posts: 13,180
- Joined: 08-June 01
Posted 28 March 2003 - 04:28 PM
There's a good overview of this bill at the House of Representatives website:
http://www.house.gov...pdf/RL31706.pdf
Among the tidbits ... currently if your car gets repo'd and its sale value doesn't cover the loan amount, you can discharge the unsecured amount in bankruptcy. After this "reform," you can't.
Probably the most penetrating observation in the report is that as more categories of debt become non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, more Chapter 13 repayment plans will fail. Meaning that the debtors get on an endless treadmill of court appearances. Meaning $$$$ for guess whom?
http://www.house.gov...pdf/RL31706.pdf
Among the tidbits ... currently if your car gets repo'd and its sale value doesn't cover the loan amount, you can discharge the unsecured amount in bankruptcy. After this "reform," you can't.
Probably the most penetrating observation in the report is that as more categories of debt become non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, more Chapter 13 repayment plans will fail. Meaning that the debtors get on an endless treadmill of court appearances. Meaning $$$$ for guess whom?
"GOLD -- it's not just for misers anymore."
"Dollahs -- fire-starters for the K-wave winter." - Drano
"Three humps and a dump." - anotherone, 21 SEP 2004
"No gold was harmed in the making of this movie." - Bizarro Greenspan
[i]"Da Track. Da place where Morons bet on Animals Controlled by Criminals." - our jickiss
"Dollahs -- fire-starters for the K-wave winter." - Drano
"Three humps and a dump." - anotherone, 21 SEP 2004
"No gold was harmed in the making of this movie." - Bizarro Greenspan
[i]"Da Track. Da place where Morons bet on Animals Controlled by Criminals." - our jickiss
