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#61 Bungster

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 07:46 PM

ISEE Index data looking potentially toppy... :unsure:

http://www.iseoption...e...&link1=true
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#62 phatbubble

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 07:50 PM

Off topic. This post is certainly not meant to flame or enrage people, but is a genuine query.

John Mauldin has apparently called amongst other things for a 5% cut across the board in government spending, but says that military spending should be exempt.

One thing fascinates me as a non-US citizen.

I have been roaming around the bearish message boards for around 8 years now, and find them in all respects but one to be populated by people who tend not to buy into group-think and who show a highly developed tendency to think for themselves.

However, when it comes to the US military this tendency to eschew the conventional wisdom totally vanishes. Under no circumastances must the military in general or the people who serve in it be held up to any critism. All military folk are heroes and should be worshipped as such.

Rather than comprising a heroic group of selfless wonderwomen and supermen, it seems to me that a lot of military folk are in the military so as to gain access to aspects of society (tertiary education, health care) from which they would otherwise priced out. So my cynical viewpoint is that there is a stealth draft in effect providing fodder for the elite.

Why should a reduction of 5% across the board in government related spending exclude the military?? Why are the military and the people that serve in the military regarded as being so sacrosanct? As an outsider I am totally baffled. The absolute and percentage amounts spent on military in the US are vast, and if anything the more rational call is to disproportionately cull miltary spending - so cut 10% there compared to 5% elsewhere in govt spending.

IMHO there's a cultural assumption that whatever's being spent is more or less necessary.

Once in a while the public explicity disapproves: Vietnam, toilets that cost $5K, and (almost) Iraq.

The only time this sensibility seems to recede a bit is during 'peacetime', which basically means the lack of a headline war, as the US is constantly involved in overt or covert operations of one stripe or another.

Empires cost a lot.
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Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an internal anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.
You haven't answered my question.
Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

#63 phatbubble

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 07:59 PM

Guess I left out the Occam's razor part. American public discourse is pretty stupid about stuff like this.
Quod Severis Metes

Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an internal anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.
You haven't answered my question.
Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

#64 shorty

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 08:06 PM

IMHO there's a cultural assumption that whatever's being spent is more or less necessary.

Once in a while the public explicity disapproves: Vietnam, toilets that cost $5K, and (almost) Iraq.

The only time this sensibility seems to recede a bit is during 'peacetime', which basically means the lack of a headline war, as the US is constantly involved in overt or covert operations of one stripe or another.

Empires cost a lot.

why can't they run the dang thing fer-profit
conquer, break things, cut me a check fer my share

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#65 shorty

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 08:10 PM

I dont know why are you so frustrated stoolies - its easy as it gets - buy on every dip, everything is fine, we are in the bull market. come jump in, we are waiting for you:D

fulldong with impunity HURRY trade all yer cash money fer common shares they not makin' any more get in now don't miss out common stocks always go up best investment you can make in yer lifetime stop throwing money away in CD's

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#66 capitall

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 08:10 PM

why can't they run the dang thing fer-profit
conquer, break things, cut me a check fer my share


Empire: a huge waste of money spent by a country for the feeding of egos. Always, the costs
are more than the benefits.

#67 patents

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 08:14 PM

However, when it comes to the US military this tendency to eschew the conventional wisdom totally vanishes. Under no circumastances must the military in general or the people who serve in it be held up to any critism. All military folk are heroes and should be worshipped as such.

Rather than comprising a heroic group of selfless wonderwomen and supermen, it seems to me that a lot of military folk are in the military so as to gain access to aspects of society (tertiary education, health care) from which they would otherwise priced out. So my cynical viewpoint is that there is a stealth draft in effect providing fodder for the elite.

Why should a reduction of 5% across the board in government related spending exclude the military?? Why are the military and the people that serve in the military regarded as being so sacrosanct? As an outsider I am totally baffled. The absolute and percentage amounts spent on military in the US are vast, and if anything the more rational call is to disproportionately cull miltary spending - so cut 10% there compared to 5% elsewhere in govt spending.


Let me add my comments -

1. The military used to essentially be a meritocracy up until 10 or so years ago when generals where chosen not merely for their military prowess, but for their political correctness. So, I think much of the deference to the military is a result of these old concepts and does not properly reflect the change in the military.

2. The military does an excellent job at distributing the wealth of the military industrial complex. In just about every representative's district there is some direct source of governmental funding coming into that district. This may come from a military base or through a defense contractor. Thus there has generally and historically been a reluctance to kill the fatted calf by the people to ask to cut back the military spending.

3. Politically the military industrial complex has become a "third rail" much like social security. The liberals fear suggesting a cut-back might unless a conservative backlash. This is akin to conservatives fearing talking about a cut-back in social security, for example.

4. As mentioned by others, we have been bombarded with (or conditioned by) fear of terrorism for almost a decade. When the populace has fear, we expect the government to save us no matter what the cost is to society. We will willingly give up individual rights, such as through the Patriot Act, as a trade for security. Before that it was the "cold war."

5. Finally, military actions, weapons systems, bases, wars, and personnel levels in the military are much easier to increase than to decrease. Much like wandering into a pit of quicksand. To cut back on bases requires commissions and studies and hearings and etc. To spend requires just a contract that is often no-bid.

I know, it makes no sense and neither do my comments, but such is political economcs.

#68 POTUS

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 08:21 PM

Speaking generally here, but basically on the subject of control of US Government spending, Mauldin has his head up his ass.

But that's OK, he makes his living by bullshitting about topics on which he is truly clueless. At least his bullshit is sometimes entertaining to read and he even has a good chart from time to time.

Howeve, you are missing an important aspect of the US DoD spending kiwibear.

It's not about spending money on people in uniform. Spending on people in uniform is less than 25% of the total spend.


The other 75% is on pork, all kinds of pork and in every flavor.


For example, there's the profoundly bloated civilian defense workforce and the massive military base network around the world. You would be astounded at the number of US Military bases that have golf courses with ocean views overlooking tropical beaches. Then there's the buying of airplanes and tanks that the Generals don't want, but provide massive profits for the contractors and jobs for the constituents. I could go on and on about the pork.

So, USA military spending has always been and will continue to be just another bailout, in a different form. 

Makes the $700 Billion for Wall Street look reasonable, even tiny in comparison.

If you can't convince them; confuse them.


#69 Bungster

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 08:32 PM

bgz.png

Interesting chart pattern... :closedeyes:
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future" Yogi Berra
"If you believe people are rational beings, you will go through life frustrated and confused" Scott Adams
"Don't dig the dialog of denial"
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God." George W. Bush

#70 Bungster

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 08:35 PM

baseball_fatman.jpg

I think the average Merican is more interested in IF the price of his "hotdog" is going up...
"It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future" Yogi Berra
"If you believe people are rational beings, you will go through life frustrated and confused" Scott Adams
"Don't dig the dialog of denial"
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God." George W. Bush

#71 K Wave Rider

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 08:44 PM

bgz.png

Interesting chart pattern... :closedeyes:


Yup, if this thing reverses overnight, bullz could have bloodbath on their hands in very short order....

HUGE pivot set at today's low

#72 Jimi

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 08:47 PM

Off topic. This post is certainly not meant to flame or enrage people, but is a genuine query.

John Mauldin has apparently called amongst other things for a 5% cut across the board in government spending, but says that military spending should be exempt.

One thing fascinates me as a non-US citizen.

I have been roaming around the bearish message boards for around 8 years now, and find them in all respects but one to be populated by people who tend not to buy into group-think and who show a highly developed tendency to think for themselves.

However, when it comes to the US military this tendency to eschew the conventional wisdom totally vanishes. Under no circumastances must the military in general or the people who serve in it be held up to any critism. All military folk are heroes and should be worshipped as such.

Rather than comprising a heroic group of selfless wonderwomen and supermen, it seems to me that a lot of military folk are in the military so as to gain access to aspects of society (tertiary education, health care) from which they would otherwise priced out. So my cynical viewpoint is that there is a stealth draft in effect providing fodder for the elite.

Why should a reduction of 5% across the board in government related spending exclude the military?? Why are the military and the people that serve in the military regarded as being so sacrosanct? As an outsider I am totally baffled. The absolute and percentage amounts spent on military in the US are vast, and if anything the more rational call is to disproportionately cull miltary spending - so cut 10% there compared to 5% elsewhere in govt spending.

Oh brother.

:rolleyes:

Looks like we're going to have to invade New Zealand and nationbuild it, too.

:huh:

Is there no corner of this ungrateful planet that we don't have to bomb into stopping with its question-posing and simply on-getting with their subservient duty of thanking us?
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#73 phatbubble

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 08:49 PM

baseball_fatman.jpg

I think the average Merican is more interested in IF the price of his "hotdog" is going up...

Not sure he can actually find his hotdog, might be tough to price
Quod Severis Metes

Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an internal anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.
You haven't answered my question.
Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

#74 K Wave Rider

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 08:57 PM

Oh brother.

:rolleyes:

Looks like we're going to have to invade New Zealand and nationbuild it, too.

:huh:

Is there no corner of this ungrateful planet that we don't have to bomb into stopping with its question-posing and simply on-getting with their subservient duty of thanking us?


Costa Rica has no military by Constitution, since 1948 ...beautiful country, nice people.

Why on earth would we want the rest of the planet to be like that?



#75 capitall

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 09:06 PM

Costa Rica has no military by Constitution, since 1948 ...beautiful country, nice people.

Why on earth would we want the rest of the planet to be like that?


Costa Rica is also the birdwatcher's center of the universe, along with gorgeous natural scenery. Have been there & will likely go back.

Good video, KW. So long ago now. Who woulda thunk after all this time we'd be in "another Vietnam" all over again?





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