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12/04/02 Astros From Old Board

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#31 LunaC


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Posted 11 December 2002 - 05:19 AM

I've always interpreted the South Node as "trouble". When Pluto is within the same degree as the South Node next December in his 5th (speculation) this tells me that his downfall will be a slow process to unfold over the next year, that he's going to lose his gamble and the whole thing is going to blow up in his face.

But let's fast-forward to Nov 2004 and the Election....(you're gonna' get a kick out of this!).....not only is Pluto and the South Node doing their karmic dance again, BUT HE'S HAVING HIS SECOND "SATURN RETURN".

For the non-astrologers, Saturn is a planet known for loss, limitation, hardship and difficulty. Every 29 years or so it completes its cycle and ends up where it started and a new cycle begins. In human situations this generally creates a drastic change of events. If you look back, sometime between the ages of 28 - 30 something happened to you to knock you off course and send you in an entirely new direction, drastically changing the status quo and your worldview in the process. Perhaps it was a marriage, the start of a new business, a move to a new city, a new job, an accident or illness...whatever it was, it was BIG (and not necessarily an easy transition. Saturn has a way of knocking you up-side the head if you're not paying attention and it can be kick-ass when it needs to be.)

Now, if you don't get the first Saturn Return right (and we know Shrub's been a royal screw-up all his life), the second one is a real doozy and this is what he'll be up against for the next Presidential election. AND his upcoming Saturn Return will be in the 12th house of "self-undoing" and "seclusion" while Mars in the 4th (foundation) is square the whole configuration which pretty well seals the deal. Shrub's days of power are numbered (providing that "Tecumseh's Curse" doesn't get him first - ha! That Pluto/Uranus opposition could indicate his demise since Uranus rules his natal 8th of death and Pluto is the natural ruler of the 8th!)

Just to give you an idea of the Saturn Return's power when in a hard aspect with Mars as the "trigger" (and to toot my own horn a bit) I publically predicted to the exact day the April 14th, 2000 Nasdaq meltdown months before it occured based on these same Cosmic Players. (link available upon request)

Only one $64K question remains: Can we survive Shrub's illusions and foibles before Fate catches up with him and his karmic debt comes due?

#32 phatbubble


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Posted 11 December 2002 - 12:17 PM

yes the pluto/node thing is huge....shrub appears to have a very difficult time coming up. dates:

6 jan 03: uranus in 7th inconjunct saturn in 12th - sudden events forcing change in order or discipline; hidden conditions of imprisonment or confinement reach breaking point

8 jan 03: neptune in 7th opp mercury in 1st - lies, deceipt, and possible alcoholism/drug use featured in image and communication; extreme difficulty in evaluating circumstances and effecting good decisions

27 jan 03: pluto in 5th opp uranus in 11th - massive unpreventable change in personal/professional relationships and long-held aims and goals

28 jan 03: neptune in 7th opp pluto in 1st - disappearance of normal personal circumstances; open enemies & adversarial forces laying bare personal secrets

15 feb 03: pluto in 5th opp north node - karmic/power issues countering material and career aims

28 apr 03: pluto Rx in 5th opp north node (again)

5 may 03: saturn in 11th semisextile saturn in 12th

given all this, as well as

-his progressed saturn applying to his relocated ascendant within 1 degree,

-his progressed moon squaring mercury/pluto in his 1st,

-a hindu sub-bhukti period change in apr 03,

i'm not convinced he will stay in power through the spring. between the army of skeletons that may come tumbling out of the closet, the extreme duress and ruthlessness from those behind the scenes who actually run the 'bush administration', and the world events that have been set in motion, i find it likely that he cracks under pressure, and is scapegoated or even assassinated by those for whom he has now become a liability.

a little heavy here, sorry. all thoughts welcome.
Quod Severis Metes

Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an internal anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.
You haven't answered my question.
Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

#33 Hoodwinked


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Posted 11 December 2002 - 07:08 PM

Phat I got him in deep doo doo mid Feb. He is just itchin to use nukes. If you look at the Islamic chart, its all there. I got him gone in the Fall, Cheney goes before him.
Down in Political Stool Luna posted a great article. I read it somewhere a couple weeks ago. It explains how he is wired, and makes alot of sense. It fits :o

#34 IrishJew


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Posted 11 December 2002 - 08:30 PM

Luna C,

your looking for Natural Disasters on 1919 overlooked the most visicous one of all.....

The influenza epidemic that killed millions worldwide that year, at least half a million deaths in this country....




#35 mjkst27


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Posted 11 December 2002 - 08:50 PM

y'all astros should start doing readings for Stoolies in exchange for a contribution to Doc. Keep your skills sharp, entertain and mystify some stoolies, and put some cha-ching in Doc's pocket. eh?


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Posted 11 December 2002 - 08:59 PM

hoodwinked, i remember reading how not 6 months before before the gulf war, bush sr had in some way encouraged saddam to invade kuwait....agreed to turn a blind eye or something. what a setup....allowed us to come rumbling into the holy land and stir up the bees' nest. bush sr left him in power for some reason.

shrub, cheney, et al have so much dirt, lies, & blood on their hands it's difficult to know where to start. it's difficult to imagine that the usa has fallen so totally into the hands of such aggressive, arrogant criminals.

but the chickens ALWAYS come home to roost.

btw, what data are you using for shrub?

Yes, I read the same thing. Seems that Bush Sr. okayed Saddam's Kuwait adventure. It was a setup. We "had" to go in to "free" Kuwait and "save" the royal asses in Arabia from the evil Saddam. Couldn't have been a better written script. Kuwaitis are grateful. Saudis are grateful and we get to show off our military power to the world. Saddam was left there cause Bush Sr. had accomplished what he wanted to do and didn't want to overplay his hand. He had his grand victory and moved on.

#37 LunaC


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Posted 13 December 2002 - 04:39 AM

Looks like Stratfor is seeing the same possibilities that we've been discussing.....

"History frequently is made by people with a clear vision, but sometimes it is the result of unintended consequences. In the end, history takes you to the same place. However, in our view, the Bush administration is quite clear in its own mind about how the region will look after a U.S.-Iraq war. We suspect that the risks are calculated as well.

1. The United States might get bogged down in a war in Iraq if enemy forces prove more capable than expected and -- facing high casualties in Baghdad -- Washington might be forced to accept an armistice that would leave it in a far worse position psychologically and geopolitically than before.

2. The consequences of U.S. occupation might be the opposite of what is expected. A broad anti-U.S. coalition could form in the region, and al Qaeda might use the changed atmosphere to increase its regional influence and to intensify anti-U.S. operations.

3. European leaders actually might shift from making speeches to supplying direct military support for Saudi Arabia and other states in the region against the United States.

4. Prior to an attack, U.S. public opinion might shift massively against a war, making it impossible for the United States to act. Once again, the superpower would appear to be all talk, no action.

#38 phatbubble


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Posted 13 December 2002 - 10:05 PM

re discussion of this weekend, arch crawford's apprehensions, etc.....i'm not at all sure that i have anything concrete to offer in terms of what, exactly, may happen....but the following might be worth a look.

i created a composite chart for george w. bush and the usa. for those unfamiliar with composite charts, the idea is that when one person or entity and a second person or entity 'get together' in a relationship, of whatever kind, the relationship has its own chart, which is constructed using mathematical averages of the positions of each of the planets and houses in both of the charts. the idea was pioneered by robert hand and is a fairly recent development in asstrology, yet in many ways it dwarfs any other method of figuring out what two people or entities are up to. if Mr Poopy and Ms Skidmark are in luvv, there's Poopy's chart, and there's Skidmark's chart, but the third chart - the Poopy-Skidmark composite chart - tells us all about what Poopy-Skidmark are all about together and what we may expect with and from that relationship. you can cast composite charts for a pair of people, a person and a company, a person and country, two countries, a religion and a country, whatever, etc. etc. for this discussion i'm using shrub's birth info relocated to DC and the sag rising usa chart.

Posted Image

first, the George W. Bush's America composite chart has a VERY striking conjunction of sun (identity, ego) and the north node (life trajectory); the conjunction is circled in red and is exact within 3 minutes. these two were 'meant for each other', or the option of being together was readily accessible, whether or not it was good for either party. this is a 'destiny' or 'entwined path' signature. the fact that this sun/node conjunction is near the midheaven suggests a public union of sorts - it's sort of the ben/j. lo aspect. we might look to this spot in the chart for some guidance as to what this couple will do together in public. get married? have a fight? start a charity? screw on a private beach in the roving telephoto lenses of the paparazzi? or....what? as it happens, this sun/node conjunction is presently afflicted (or under attack, if you like) from no less than six planets, including pluto (power, oil), neptune (deception), and chiron (wounding and healing). this is not an easy time to be GWBA. public missteps are almost certainly guaranteed, and will not be forgotten or even resolved anytime soon but rather may persist and fester in the public consciousness.

second, the ruler of the first house (beingness, physical/energetic body) is venus (harmony and relationships), which is afflicted by both uranus (change and sudden developments) and saturn (the status quo). there may be no clear way forward or back that does not present strife. can't keep going and can't stop; too much friction is generated in either case. George W. Bush's America has painted itself into a corner.

third, transiting mars (war, aggression) has just entered the second house (money, material resources) of GWBA, which is ruled by pluto (power, oil) and which has this pluto sitting on the cusp (or sensitive point) of the house.

fourth, GWBA's mercury (communication) is conjunct its mars (war, aggression). it opens its mouth and something bellicose comes out. this mars/mercury (combative rhetoric) is in a very close square (or difficult aspect) to pluto (power, oil), the ruler of its money house. GWBA's combative rhetoric is fundamentally incompatible with its material abundance.

this weekend the transiting moon whizzing around the GWBA chart opposes pluto. and monday transiting mercury squares the ascendant, and tuesday venus & mars both quincunx the descendant (open enemies). finding a 'trigger' aspect is always a needle/haystack proposition, and it's 2 am here and time to sign off for now.

all thoughts welcome on this. hood, any eclipse info that dovetails here?
Quod Severis Metes

Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an internal anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.
You haven't answered my question.
Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

#39 chasmo


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Posted 14 December 2002 - 02:05 AM

This is great stuff keep it coming.
The first thing that jumped out at me is composite moon at 21 Sag. is on Bush nodal uranus axis were Saturn is about to set up in late Januray and Febuary.Bushs solar arc Saturn is also at 20 Virgo 35min so it will be squaring the composite Moon for the next year.As the composite Moon rules the ninth house of foreign affairs it would seem he the USA have problems communicating their message or perhaps whatever their message is it is rejected.I really wonder from looking at this is the UN will approve his war plans for Iraq.I would think the UN here would be ruled by the ninth house.
Also ,and this is huge ,next year, next fall ,Saturn goes stationary on the US Sun, the Bush Sun, and the composite Sun and node.At the same time chiron will be opposing this position from Capricorn.
Last time it was in this area Nixon resigned and we were takeing heavy causalities in WWII.
I feel strongly that this will a period where what Hood has been talking about the haveing to pay the bill for excess and the greed of the past 29 years comes due.
Iam not sure about the terrorist thing but I would be willing to bet the unemployment rate at this time will be far higher than any one even here at stool would be willing to predict.
Some other things we might be thinking about. I have been thinking about but not sure what to make of it.
The solar arc mercury PLuto in Bushs chart along with his ascendent is about to conjoin the Bush natal Neptune.Mercuy pluto will do this in 2003 with ascendent to follow.Neptune with mercury is horrible judgement that leads to ruin.Throw pluto in here and you have to wonder about his personal well being our well being.
Also his prebirth eclipse degrees which is a good way of measureing the nodes are fulll moon at 23 gemini and new moon 6 degrees Cancer.Saturn about to set up at 22 gemini and next year Saturn will make three passes over 6 degrees cancer.
Also his current dasa is Saturn and Bhukti Rahu or north node.Saturn is going to be sitting right on his Rahu all thru febuary.
as Rahus is in his 11th house of desire fullfilled one would think he at the very least is entering a period where he is going to be hugely frustrated in this regard.If Robert Houk were alive Iam sure he would becalling attention to this as a red flag about the 00 curse. Saturn is a Marka in the Bush chart though North node in the eleventh is not. Note also his natal saturn is at 150 degress to US Moon which rules the eight house of the markets and deaths from war and disease.and as has been have pointed out Saturn will via his saturn return come to this spot in his natal chart in 2004.
His Mercury Pluto sits on the US nodes from the second to the eigth in the US chart adversly affecting the nations wealth and the wealth in stocks bonds securities and banks.Last but not least his Saturn also is on US Mercury in the eigth and almost exactly opposite the US Pluto.That Saturn of his brings out a lot of darkness in all of us and I would submit is a huge destroyer of wealth(pluto in the US second)
I noted all of this in the Novemeber period of 2000 when the market was first seriously heading south and thought its a new era folks. A Bear era! Aint nothing going to change that as long as this guy is president!
The composite Uranus is exactly conjoined the Sibly chart for the USA seventh house indicating how hard it is for him to achieve agreements of a binding nature with others.He or he the USA is very unstable and individualistic in its dealings with others.
I suspect he goes to war with Iraq without UN aprroval just on the basis of this.
Okay that is enough for now.Keep this good sltuff coming Phat. It helps us asstro Stoolies to think at a time when there is plenty to think about.

#40 LunaC


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Posted 14 December 2002 - 03:56 AM

re discussion of this weekend, arch crawford's apprehensions, etc.....

Do you have a link to Crawford's commentary?


#41 LunaC


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Posted 19 December 2002 - 03:19 PM

US Sets Late January Decision on Iraq War

This certainly fits within the timeframe we've been discussing.

#42 LunaC


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Posted 22 December 2002 - 02:38 AM

Astrology was developed over thousands of years of observation so when I see a "Wild Card" aspect like the Jan. 12 - 26 Uranus/Moon configuration, I find myself sniffing the air, looking for more specific clues about how it may play out.

I found this to be of interest (and it supports the "alienation" sentiments): There is going to be a National March planned for Washington, DC and San Francisco on Jan. 18th. I find this intriguing not only because it's within the specified time frame but particularly because Uranus relates to rebellion and it's in the 3rd house of communication (and what louder communication can you make than a protest?)

My concern, however, is that the Moon is ruler of the US house of death...

"Kent State redux?" flashes through my brain, wondering.

Naw, couldn't be....could it? (I shudder to think!)

It's just a figurative representation, right? Right?

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