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#1 wndysrf

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 03:52 PM

I think this article takes the cake.

Black Box Trading Robots are now competing so furiously with each other, they are actually re-locating their computers to Kansas City near the exchange computers, where the PigMen also have their computers located.

Doing so allows the Black Boxers to get their trades filled a millisecond faster than some guy in New York or Greenwich, since the speed of light is not fast enough.

Some 37-year old Whiz Kid trades millions of shares daily in an attempt to scalp 1 cent off a stock like MSFT.

On any given day, his trades alone account for 10% of the total trading volume in that stock.

Excerpts from the WSJ:

Fast Lane: Firms Seek Edge Through Speed As Computer Trading Expands Tradebot Moves Its Machines Into Exchange Buildings; Competitors Follow Suit
100 Million Shares in a Day


By AARON LUCCHETTI

NORTH KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- About four years ago, Dave Cummings moved his trading firm's computers from a storefront in this Kansas City suburb to buildings in New York and New Jersey that house central computers for two big electronic stock exchanges.

The move shaved a precious fraction of a second from the time it takes Mr. Cummings's firm, Tradebot Systems Inc., to buy or sell a stock on computer-based exchanges like Archipelago. It now takes Tradebot about 1/1000 of a second to trade a stock, compared with 20/1000 before the move -- a difference of about the time it takes a computer signal to zip at nearly the speed of light from Kansas City to New York and back.

That may not seem like a big difference, but in Mr. Cummings's obscure corner of the stock-trading universe, speed is critical and fractions of seconds loom large. Tradebot's computers are programmed to detect, among other things, tiny, fleeting differences between bid and offer prices of stocks, then to pounce, buying stocks at one price and almost immediately reselling them for a fraction more. If his firm hadn't moved its computers, says Mr. Cummings, "we'd be out of business."

Dozens of other firms, ranging from Citadel Derivatives Group to a brokerage unit of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., also employ split-second trading strategies. That has set off an arms race to shave the time it takes for orders to reach the computers of electronic exchanges. In their quest for the choicest locations, at least 40 of Tradebot's competitors have carted their computers to the same buildings, a practice known as co-location.

Trading mostly Mr. Cummings's own money, privately held Tradebot, which has about 20 employees, makes between $30,000 and $150,000 a day and up to $20 million a year, people familiar with its finances say.

In Mr. Cummings's world, the fundamentals of a stock are of little consequence. His firm favors large stocks, such as Microsoft, because it can trade in and out quickly. On one recent afternoon, a computer screen in Tradebot headquarters indicated that the firm accounted for more than 10% of that day's trading in Microsoft. On many days, Tradebot's trading totals account for as much as 5% of all Nasdaq trading, on par with trading levels at such giant firms as Fidelity Investments.

Mr. Cummings, 37 years old, learned to program as a teenager when he also worked at his father's computer-software store.

Cummings told potential investors that he had created a robot to do what floor traders did -- hence, the name Tradebot. His firm would buy and sell based on signals from its computer program, collecting lots of nickels and dimes by being faster than other traders. Mr. Bradley says he declined to invest, figuring it would be difficult to make money on a large scale.

Mr. Cummings's computers sometimes traded more than 1,000 times a minute. It ended most days owning no stock, cashing out all its positions.

On Oct. 9, 2002, Tradebot for the first time traded 100 million shares in a single day, most of them stocks listed on Nasdaq. At that time, the NYSE was still a private cooperative controlled by floor brokers and specialists who traded stocks the old-fashioned way.

anal cysts estimate that Mr. Cummings's net worth surpassed $10 million several years ago. His trading business is probably worth several times that, although as a private firm, its finances aren't disclosed.

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#2 LeeWhee

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 05:13 PM

Suds- It's so great to see you. Like the good ole days. Hope you can hang out more often, even if just in the evening at M2M.

Now if we could just find good ole Drano!

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Sudaca leaves Stool,
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"I'm not a real estate bum. I wear diamonds and Rolexes. I'm a classy Realtorô."--- Liz "Flaming Orange" Seither, Clearwater, FL, who owes lenders millions of dollars in debts.

"Men do not desire to be rich, but to be richer than other men."---John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)

"When the music stops, things will be complicated. But as long as the music is playing, you've got to get up and dance. We're still dancing..."---Citigroup CEO Chucky "Master of Timing" Prince, 7/9/07

"Wall Street is a graveyard of geniuses."---Chriss Street, Treasurer, Orange County, CA, 7/27/07

"It was never my thinking that made big money for me. It was my sitting. Men who can be both right and sit tight are uncommon. I found it one of the hardest things to learn."---Jesse Livermore

"You can kill a sheep just once, but you can fleece him 100 times."---Jeff Macke

"Stocks are no longer the weather glass of fortune, but a part of the mask employed to disguise the nation's own face to itself." ---Horace Walpole, 1782

#3 crazy_ate

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 05:15 PM

Yeah, the problem with this thing is that 5-7 years from now when it hits $1,000 per share (split adjusted) we will all look back at it and wonder why we didn't pick some up at $95.....destined to be yet another "one-decision" stock

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#4 LeeWhee

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 05:17 PM

I think this article takes the cake.

Black Box Trading Robots are now competing so furiously with each other, they are actually re-locating their computers to Kansas City near the exchange computers, where the PigMen also have their computers located.

Doing so allows the Black Boxers to get their trades filled a millisecond faster than some guy in New York or Greenwich, since the speed of light is not fast enough.

Some 37-year old Whiz Kid trades millions of shares daily in an attempt to scalp 1 cent off a stock like MSFT.

On any given day, his trades alone account for 10% of the total trading volume in that stock.

Excerpts from the WSJ:

Fast Lane:  Firms Seek Edge Through Speed As Computer Trading Expands Tradebot Moves Its Machines Into Exchange Buildings; Competitors Follow Suit
100 Million Shares in a Day


By AARON LUCCHETTI

NORTH KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- About four years ago, Dave Cummings moved his trading firm's computers from a storefront in this Kansas City suburb to buildings in New York and New Jersey that house central computers for two big electronic stock exchanges.

The move shaved a precious fraction of a second from the time it takes Mr. Cummings's firm, Tradebot Systems Inc., to buy or sell a stock on computer-based exchanges like Archipelago. It now takes Tradebot about 1/1000 of a second to trade a stock, compared with 20/1000 before the move -- a difference of about the time it takes a computer signal to zip at nearly the speed of light from Kansas City to New York and back.

That may not seem like a big difference, but in Mr. Cummings's obscure corner of the stock-trading universe, speed is critical and fractions of seconds loom large. Tradebot's computers are programmed to detect, among other things, tiny, fleeting differences between bid and offer prices of stocks, then to pounce, buying stocks at one price and almost immediately reselling them for a fraction more. If his firm hadn't moved its computers, says Mr. Cummings, "we'd be out of business."

Dozens of other firms, ranging from Citadel Derivatives Group to a brokerage unit of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., also employ split-second trading strategies. That has set off an arms race to shave the time it takes for orders to reach the computers of electronic exchanges. In their quest for the choicest locations, at least 40 of Tradebot's competitors have carted their computers to the same buildings, a practice known as co-location.

Trading mostly Mr. Cummings's own money, privately held Tradebot, which has about 20 employees, makes between $30,000 and $150,000 a day and up to $20 million a year, people familiar with its finances say.

In Mr. Cummings's world, the fundamentals of a stock are of little consequence. His firm favors large stocks, such as Microsoft, because it can trade in and out quickly. On one recent afternoon, a computer screen in Tradebot headquarters indicated that the firm accounted for more than 10% of that day's trading in Microsoft. On many days, Tradebot's trading totals account for as much as 5% of all Nasdaq trading, on par with trading levels at such giant firms as Fidelity Investments.

Mr. Cummings, 37 years old, learned to program as a teenager when he also worked at his father's computer-software store.

Cummings told potential investors that he had created a robot to do what floor traders did -- hence, the name Tradebot. His firm would buy and sell based on signals from its computer program, collecting lots of nickels and dimes by being faster than other traders. Mr. Bradley says he declined to invest, figuring it would be difficult to make money on a large scale.

Mr. Cummings's computers sometimes traded more than 1,000 times a minute. It ended most days owning no stock, cashing out all its positions.

On Oct. 9, 2002, Tradebot for the first time traded 100 million shares in a single day, most of them stocks listed on Nasdaq. At that time, the NYSE was still a private cooperative controlled by floor brokers and specialists who traded stocks the old-fashioned way.

anal cysts estimate that Mr. Cummings's net worth surpassed $10 million several years ago. His trading business is probably worth several times that, although as a private firm, its finances aren't disclosed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Traveling at the speed of light is too slow for the AlGorerhythmically-programmed bots.

They must travel at the speed of greed.

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"I'm not a real estate bum. I wear diamonds and Rolexes. I'm a classy Realtorô."--- Liz "Flaming Orange" Seither, Clearwater, FL, who owes lenders millions of dollars in debts.

"Men do not desire to be rich, but to be richer than other men."---John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)

"When the music stops, things will be complicated. But as long as the music is playing, you've got to get up and dance. We're still dancing..."---Citigroup CEO Chucky "Master of Timing" Prince, 7/9/07

"Wall Street is a graveyard of geniuses."---Chriss Street, Treasurer, Orange County, CA, 7/27/07

"It was never my thinking that made big money for me. It was my sitting. Men who can be both right and sit tight are uncommon. I found it one of the hardest things to learn."---Jesse Livermore

"You can kill a sheep just once, but you can fleece him 100 times."---Jeff Macke

"Stocks are no longer the weather glass of fortune, but a part of the mask employed to disguise the nation's own face to itself." ---Horace Walpole, 1782

#5 mmoy

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 05:17 PM

Sounds like it's ripe for the plucking by Goldman or JP Morgan next year.
Always the need for a new source of bonuses.

My guess is that any automated system can be gamed. You just need more
speed and better pattern recognition than the other guy. BTW, whatever
they're doing with Microsoft, I'm all for it. It closed solidly above $30 though
I don't know what the volume is because stockcharts is down.

#6 mmoy

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 05:24 PM

INDIANAPOLIS - More than 300 people say they became ill, and at least three have been hospitalized, after eating at an Olive Garden restaurant last weekend, health officials said Friday.

http://news.yahoo.co...taurant_illness

Restaurants have been relative weak lately.

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#7 dogsie

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 05:31 PM

I think this article takes the cake.

Black Box Trading Robots are now competing so furiously with each other, they are actually re-locating their computers to Kansas City near the exchange computers, where the PigMen also have their computers located.

Doing so allows the Black Boxers to get their trades filled a millisecond faster than some guy in New York or Greenwich, since the speed of light is not fast enough.

Some 37-year old Whiz Kid trades millions of shares daily in an attempt to scalp 1 cent off a stock like MSFT.

On any given day, his trades alone account for 10% of the total trading volume in that stock.

Excerpts from the WSJ:

Fast Lane:  Firms Seek Edge Through Speed As Computer Trading Expands Tradebot Moves Its Machines Into Exchange Buildings; Competitors Follow Suit
100 Million Shares in a Day


By AARON LUCCHETTI

NORTH KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- About four years ago, Dave Cummings moved his trading firm's computers from a storefront in this Kansas City suburb to buildings in New York and New Jersey that house central computers for two big electronic stock exchanges.

The move shaved a precious fraction of a second from the time it takes Mr. Cummings's firm, Tradebot Systems Inc., to buy or sell a stock on computer-based exchanges like Archipelago. It now takes Tradebot about 1/1000 of a second to trade a stock, compared with 20/1000 before the move -- a difference of about the time it takes a computer signal to zip at nearly the speed of light from Kansas City to New York and back.

That may not seem like a big difference, but in Mr. Cummings's obscure corner of the stock-trading universe, speed is critical and fractions of seconds loom large. Tradebot's computers are programmed to detect, among other things, tiny, fleeting differences between bid and offer prices of stocks, then to pounce, buying stocks at one price and almost immediately reselling them for a fraction more. If his firm hadn't moved its computers, says Mr. Cummings, "we'd be out of business."

Dozens of other firms, ranging from Citadel Derivatives Group to a brokerage unit of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., also employ split-second trading strategies. That has set off an arms race to shave the time it takes for orders to reach the computers of electronic exchanges. In their quest for the choicest locations, at least 40 of Tradebot's competitors have carted their computers to the same buildings, a practice known as co-location.

Trading mostly Mr. Cummings's own money, privately held Tradebot, which has about 20 employees, makes between $30,000 and $150,000 a day and up to $20 million a year, people familiar with its finances say.

In Mr. Cummings's world, the fundamentals of a stock are of little consequence. His firm favors large stocks, such as Microsoft, because it can trade in and out quickly. On one recent afternoon, a computer screen in Tradebot headquarters indicated that the firm accounted for more than 10% of that day's trading in Microsoft. On many days, Tradebot's trading totals account for as much as 5% of all Nasdaq trading, on par with trading levels at such giant firms as Fidelity Investments.

Mr. Cummings, 37 years old, learned to program as a teenager when he also worked at his father's computer-software store.

Cummings told potential investors that he had created a robot to do what floor traders did -- hence, the name Tradebot. His firm would buy and sell based on signals from its computer program, collecting lots of nickels and dimes by being faster than other traders. Mr. Bradley says he declined to invest, figuring it would be difficult to make money on a large scale.

Mr. Cummings's computers sometimes traded more than 1,000 times a minute. It ended most days owning no stock, cashing out all its positions.

On Oct. 9, 2002, Tradebot for the first time traded 100 million shares in a single day, most of them stocks listed on Nasdaq. At that time, the NYSE was still a private cooperative controlled by floor brokers and specialists who traded stocks the old-fashioned way.

anal cysts estimate that Mr. Cummings's net worth surpassed $10 million several years ago. His trading business is probably worth several times that, although as a private firm, its finances aren't disclosed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Doesn't that diminish somewhat the value of intraday volume numbers for a given stock?
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. Abraham Lincoln
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it George Santayana

#8 LeeWhee

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 05:34 PM

Folks who follow volume as an indicator should be aware that much of the volume they see is just a bunch of AlGore-bots trading stocks back and forth to each other to capture a penny.

I'd follow volume if it was broken out by category of buyer:

1) SIF: Savvy insiders and finaglers
2) KIBDMMMTF: Krammer and IBD Mo-Mo Monkeys and Trend Followers
3) AGB: Al Gore Bots
4) MFPF: Mutual Frauds and Pension Funds
5) PRIFB: Price-and-Risk-Insensitive Foreign Buyers
6) SSC: Scared Short Covering
7) BM: Billy Miller
8) AQ: Al Qaeda
9) CHMF: Chairman Hu and Mr Fukyu
"I'm not a real estate bum. I wear diamonds and Rolexes. I'm a classy Realtorô."--- Liz "Flaming Orange" Seither, Clearwater, FL, who owes lenders millions of dollars in debts.

"Men do not desire to be rich, but to be richer than other men."---John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)

"When the music stops, things will be complicated. But as long as the music is playing, you've got to get up and dance. We're still dancing..."---Citigroup CEO Chucky "Master of Timing" Prince, 7/9/07

"Wall Street is a graveyard of geniuses."---Chriss Street, Treasurer, Orange County, CA, 7/27/07

"It was never my thinking that made big money for me. It was my sitting. Men who can be both right and sit tight are uncommon. I found it one of the hardest things to learn."---Jesse Livermore

"You can kill a sheep just once, but you can fleece him 100 times."---Jeff Macke

"Stocks are no longer the weather glass of fortune, but a part of the mask employed to disguise the nation's own face to itself." ---Horace Walpole, 1782

#9 DrStool

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 05:34 PM

Sounds like it's ripe for the plucking by Goldman or JP Morgan next year.
Always the need for a new source of bonuses.

My guess is that any automated system can be gamed. You just need more
speed and better pattern recognition than the other guy. BTW, whatever
they're doing with Microsoft, I'm all for it. It closed solidly above $30 though
I don't know what the volume is because stockcharts is down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You don't need Stockcharts for volume.

Every quote service shows volume. Even the one in the left sidebar of this page. :rolleyes:

MSFT was 9,346,8576

The market overview function over there also has some nice sorting functions.

If your portfolio has you feeling irregular, for fast, long lasting relief, take a subscribatory. And support your local Stool!

#10 LeeWhee

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 05:35 PM

INDIANAPOLIS - More than 300 people say they became ill, and at least three have been hospitalized, after eating at an Olive Garden restaurant last weekend, health officials said Friday.

http://news.yahoo.co...taurant_illness

Restaurants have been relative weak lately.

Posted Image

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


What's ever weirder is that nothing was wrong with the food. It just made folks sick. :lol:




I kid.
"I'm not a real estate bum. I wear diamonds and Rolexes. I'm a classy Realtorô."--- Liz "Flaming Orange" Seither, Clearwater, FL, who owes lenders millions of dollars in debts.

"Men do not desire to be rich, but to be richer than other men."---John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)

"When the music stops, things will be complicated. But as long as the music is playing, you've got to get up and dance. We're still dancing..."---Citigroup CEO Chucky "Master of Timing" Prince, 7/9/07

"Wall Street is a graveyard of geniuses."---Chriss Street, Treasurer, Orange County, CA, 7/27/07

"It was never my thinking that made big money for me. It was my sitting. Men who can be both right and sit tight are uncommon. I found it one of the hardest things to learn."---Jesse Livermore

"You can kill a sheep just once, but you can fleece him 100 times."---Jeff Macke

"Stocks are no longer the weather glass of fortune, but a part of the mask employed to disguise the nation's own face to itself." ---Horace Walpole, 1782

#11 DrStool

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 05:44 PM

I think this article takes the cake.

Black Box Trading Robots are now competing so furiously with each other, they are actually re-locating their computers to Kansas City near the exchange computers, where the PigMen also have their computers located.

Doing so allows the Black Boxers to get their trades filled a millisecond faster than some guy in New York or Greenwich, since the speed of light is not fast enough.

Some 37-year old Whiz Kid trades millions of shares daily in an attempt to scalp 1 cent off a stock like MSFT.

On any given day, his trades alone account for 10% of the total trading volume in that stock.

Excerpts from the WSJ:

Fast Lane:  Firms Seek Edge Through Speed As Computer Trading Expands Tradebot Moves Its Machines Into Exchange Buildings; Competitors Follow Suit
100 Million Shares in a Day


By AARON LUCCHETTI

NORTH KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- About four years ago, Dave Cummings moved his trading firm's computers from a storefront in this Kansas City suburb to buildings in New York and New Jersey that house central computers for two big electronic stock exchanges.

The move shaved a precious fraction of a second from the time it takes Mr. Cummings's firm, Tradebot Systems Inc., to buy or sell a stock on computer-based exchanges like Archipelago. It now takes Tradebot about 1/1000 of a second to trade a stock, compared with 20/1000 before the move -- a difference of about the time it takes a computer signal to zip at nearly the speed of light from Kansas City to New York and back.

That may not seem like a big difference, but in Mr. Cummings's obscure corner of the stock-trading universe, speed is critical and fractions of seconds loom large. Tradebot's computers are programmed to detect, among other things, tiny, fleeting differences between bid and offer prices of stocks, then to pounce, buying stocks at one price and almost immediately reselling them for a fraction more. If his firm hadn't moved its computers, says Mr. Cummings, "we'd be out of business."

Dozens of other firms, ranging from Citadel Derivatives Group to a brokerage unit of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., also employ split-second trading strategies. That has set off an arms race to shave the time it takes for orders to reach the computers of electronic exchanges. In their quest for the choicest locations, at least 40 of Tradebot's competitors have carted their computers to the same buildings, a practice known as co-location.

Trading mostly Mr. Cummings's own money, privately held Tradebot, which has about 20 employees, makes between $30,000 and $150,000 a day and up to $20 million a year, people familiar with its finances say.

In Mr. Cummings's world, the fundamentals of a stock are of little consequence. His firm favors large stocks, such as Microsoft, because it can trade in and out quickly. On one recent afternoon, a computer screen in Tradebot headquarters indicated that the firm accounted for more than 10% of that day's trading in Microsoft. On many days, Tradebot's trading totals account for as much as 5% of all Nasdaq trading, on par with trading levels at such giant firms as Fidelity Investments.

Mr. Cummings, 37 years old, learned to program as a teenager when he also worked at his father's computer-software store.

Cummings told potential investors that he had created a robot to do what floor traders did -- hence, the name Tradebot. His firm would buy and sell based on signals from its computer program, collecting lots of nickels and dimes by being faster than other traders. Mr. Bradley says he declined to invest, figuring it would be difficult to make money on a large scale.

Mr. Cummings's computers sometimes traded more than 1,000 times a minute. It ended most days owning no stock, cashing out all its positions.

On Oct. 9, 2002, Tradebot for the first time traded 100 million shares in a single day, most of them stocks listed on Nasdaq. At that time, the NYSE was still a private cooperative controlled by floor brokers and specialists who traded stocks the old-fashioned way.

anal cysts estimate that Mr. Cummings's net worth surpassed $10 million several years ago. His trading business is probably worth several times that, although as a private firm, its finances aren't disclosed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Doesn't that diminish somewhat the value of intraday volume numbers for a given stock?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Volume is inscrutable. Always has been. Now its worse. I won't say its meaningless, because that just pisses people off. But raw volume totals are very very tough to meaningfully interpret.

If your portfolio has you feeling irregular, for fast, long lasting relief, take a subscribatory. And support your local Stool!

#12 mmoy

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 06:12 PM

Sounds like it's ripe for the plucking by Goldman or JP Morgan next year.
Always the need for a new source of bonuses.

My guess is that any automated system can be gamed. You just need more
speed and better pattern recognition than the other guy. BTW, whatever
they're doing with Microsoft, I'm all for it. It closed solidly above $30 though
I don't know what the volume is because stockcharts is down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You don't need Stockcharts for volume.

Every quote service shows volume. Even the one in the left sidebar of this page. :rolleyes:

MSFT was 9,346,8576

The market overview function over there also has some nice sorting functions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I like stockcharts as it has a moving average of the volume bars on the bottom of the screen. So I can get an eyeball feel for the volume instead of a static number.

#13 BurntOnce

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 06:38 PM

Back into RYVNX. Looks like it hit an all time low. First trade in a year.

My case of Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity is slowly improving.
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Burned Once (Enron, Global Crossing, WorldCrime, etc.).

#14 wndysrf

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 06:44 PM

Up, up, up, up

One by one, each Dow stock is breaking out to new 3-year highs

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#15 wndysrf

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 06:45 PM

I think the next stocks to be gamed one way or another:

Both pinned, will either break out or break down.

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