Prechter's Elliott Wave And Safewealth Revisited
10 replies to this topic
Posted 14 January 2003 - 12:14 AM
For those of you interested, I spent the entire day researching the company that Prechter of EW highly recommends in his book, Conquer the Crash”. The Company’s name is SafeWealth, a very high-level, cream of the crop group that claims to have evaluated all the banks of the world with their own stringent evaluation criteria. According to their literature only a handful of banks meet their requirements and it is those banks that they recommend to their clients; but the bank names are not revealed until a potential client with the minimum deposit of 300K is approved.
I found it a little disconcerting that there is so little information on this group or anyone associated with it. Maybe these guys/gals are all super secret Swiss types; maybe there is good reason for the lack of information; maybe it’s all in paper form for clients only. But, it seems strange that the past accomplishments of virtually all of the names they do offer in their literature are no where to be found on the Internet.
Starting with the illustration that a Google search for David Tice, of Prudent Bear brings up over 2,000 hits; here’s what I found about SafeWealth.
A Search of SafeWealth brought up eight hits on Google; three attributed to references from the Beartopia Site, three from book reviews of “Conquer the Crash”, two attributed to Elliottwave.com and one (the only informative one) linking to a page that lists a photograph and a paragraph outlining work experience for a woman, Imogen Collis Roulet, who is apparently SafeWealth’s President of the Board.
SafeWealth Group divides it’s member companies into the following entities: SafeWealth Consultants Ltd, SafeWealth Services (Switzerland), SafeStore Ltd., SafeDeposit Ltd , and SafeWealth Management Ltd.
According to my last hit, Imogen Collis Roulet is President of the board of SafeWealth Services SA. This document is a short resume of sorts. It’s interesting to note that she has a degree in Criminology.
>>Management consultant in strategic planning – corporate and personal business coach.
Degree in forensic sciences and criminology UNIL, MBA from HEC Lausanne.
Co founder of CatalyzNet. President of the board of SafeWealth Services SA.<<
When searching directly under her name, I came up with three sites, all in French, only one worth mentioning:
[PDF]Campus virtuel suisse (Translated, this says she specializes in Internet Security)
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat -
Page 1. Bravo à l'UNIL! Coup sur coup, des équipes lausan- noises
se sont distinguées dans trois concours scien- tifiques! Victoire ...
Searching under the other company name mentioned in her min-resume, “CatalyzNet”, I found quite a few hits that referred to the firm as Swiss Management Consultants. (That’s good) And, they even have a site: http://126.96.36.199...=...&as_qdr=all
To be fair, the site is “translated” into English, so it’s a little choppy.
From here, though, I felt it was downhill all the way.
Next, in order to get some names to work with, I went to www.elliottwave.com/swc/sc.htm and made note of the following people on their September/October Conference Schedule. The regular SafeWealth reports I receive have no names; they are signed “your editorial staff”, or SafeWealth Consultants”
Caridad Lima, Senior V.P, SafeWealth
Jean-Pierre Louvet, Founder and CEO of SafeWealth
Egon Von Greyerz, Founder and CEO of Matterhorn Asset Management (a featured speaker at the conference)
Julie Kirkpatrick, President, Lang Asset Management (The other featured conference speaker)
Michael Amos, fca, President, SafeStore
On a side note, SafeWealth specifically recommends www.milesfranklin.com for purchasing gold bars and gold coins. I have never dealt with Miles Franklin, but I “think” I’ve heard positive things about him.
Next I went to both Google and Mamma.com and did extensive searches on all these people’s names and the firms they are affiliated with.
Starting with Caridad Lima, the only time that this name comes up for either search engine is in reference to a person named “Caridad Lima Garcia” who according to several UN documents was a Cuban dissident, a “woman”, who spent 18 months in jail back in 1995. I have know idea if the Caridad Lima that presides over SafeWealth is the same person, I don’t even know if the Caridad Lima at SafeWealth is a woman; but, it is strange that a person who supposedly has the kind of financial prowess that SW claims their managers to have, does not have a SINGLE piece of financial writing or reference to them on the Net.
In digging through my SafeWealth file of papers, I did find one form signed by “Cari Lima”, although Caridad is the formal name listed on the conference sheet. In searchin under Cari Lima, about six hits came up, in English, only a wedding notification and a death notification. But, there were a few in a language I couldn’t identify for sure. Perhaps someone here could read these and tell me if any of these hits look promising.
Cari : Lima
Rileks.COM. Selasa, 3 Desember 2002. Cari Lirik Lagu. List Tembang ». 9, A,
B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, R, S, T, U, V, W, Y, Z. Artis, Album,
Judul Lagu, Keterangan. ...
www.tembang.com/ xt_cari.asp?keyword=Lima&kategori=artis - 35k Media Permata On-Line
... LPKP belum dapat mulakan perkhidmatan teksi bermeter. Polis cari lima lelaki
ugut ahli perniagaan. Jangan beri pengesahan jika rumah tidak berkualiti. ...
www.brunet.bn/news/bb/mp/selasa.htm - 10k -
... Bagi karangan meminta fakta , sekurang-kurangnya mempunyai empat isi ( seelok-eloknya
cari lima isi ) dan setiap perenggan mengandungi satu isi. ...
tatabahasabm.tripod.com/tulisan/strategi.htm - 16k –
[INDONESIA-L] RUBRIK - Ekonomi ®
... 2. Cari lima orang teman anda yg juga bersedia menyetorkan modal awal sebesar
satu juta, maka dr msg2 orang tsb, anda akan memperoleh komisi 20%. ...
www.hamline.edu/apakabar/basisdata/ 1998/04/27/0034.html - 47k -
[DOC]UTAMA Senin, 30 April 2001(Rubrik: 10b)
File Format: Microsoft Word 2000 - View as HTML
... Bukan hanya mempersiapkan pasukan, tapi juga repot cari lima pawang hujan,” terang
sumber Jawa Pos di kawasan Blok M. Seorang Polwan berpangkat Serka di ...
Next, I looked up Jean-Pierre Louvet, SafeWealth Founder.
There are quite a few references that come up for this name, but most of them are attributed to a man who is a French biologist who has done work in “fractuals” whatever they are. But other than his name coming up as book reviewer for “Conquer the Crash”, there was not one definitive piece of financial writing I could find by him/her. I even went to the trouble of translating dozens of French sites that came up with the name.
Next, came Michael Amos, SafeStore President.
Two references comes up linking a “Michael Amos” to anything remotely connected to finance, funds, money management, precious metals etc.
1) Michael Amos, Secretary of Whittard of Chelsea, PLC, UK, and the contact person for a variety of “Gartmore Funds”.
This same guy is listed under a “Mike Amos” search at a Euro Conference for Whittard. http://www.euromoney...ge=portfolio_21
2) Then there is, Michael Amos, Assistant VP, Sun Bank, Dumas, TX
Looking under “Mike Amos” as opposed to “Michael Amos” I came up with lots more hits but few possibilities just a reference to the Mike Amos, secretary of Whittard and,
This guy listed at: http://www.thehayesg...om/profiles.htm
Director, European Operations - London
Mike is the Director, European Operations for The Hayes Group International. He works with the Hayes Group in a combination of business development and organizational consulting activities throughout Europe.
Prior to joining Hayes, Mike held various positions for Delta plc. Before joining Delta, he spent 20 years with Duracell International Inc where he was Vice President - HR for Europe and a member of the Top Management Team. His HR expertise included a broad spectrum of HR functions, with an emphasis on organisational development, performance management processes, and leadership coaching.
Mike has a BA with honors in Economics from Liverpool, FIPD and is an Accredited Executive Coach with the School of Coaching at The Industrial Society.<< (He seems to be an HR guy though)
Next: We have a key speaker at the conference, Egon Von Greyerz, listed as the Founder and CEO of Matterhorn Asset Management. The only reference to this name that came up was in reference to a man of that name that was the head of the Board of Directors for a UNO Plc, a UK leather industry company. There were still only a handful of hits. But one from the UK Department of Trade said that “steps were being taken to ban all Directors of UNO including Mr. Egon Von Greyerz.” They clearly were not happy with these guys.(http://www.nds.coi.g...7a?OpenDocument)
When I searched under his firm name, three hits came up, this being the most promising:
Matterhorn Asset Management Corporation Mutual Fund Investments from Bainbridge Securities Inc.
Phone # : 800-637-3901 But, when I went to the site (which is Bainbridge) there was no mention of Matterhorn Asset Management. Maybe it’s just a fund these guys handle.
Another hit under that name brought up this:
Advisors in Pennsylvania
Company Name City
MATTERHORN ASSET MANAGEMENT CORP YARDLEY, PA
Apparently there is a fund listed under Matterhorn Asset Management Corporation: FWLEX
And, according to Scottrade charts its high was about $5.90 and it’s currently at $3.90; there’s no information on it other than a chart that shows a graph of those approximate numbers. It has no history that I could find.
The last name listed on the SafeWealth Report was a guest speaker named Julie Kirkpatrick, who was listed as the President of Lang Asset Management. It appears Lang DOES exist!; so that’s a start and there is even a picture of Ms. Kirkpatrick on the site. They are a hedge fund specialty firm. There seems to be quite a few articles on the Net written by Mr. Lang who owns Lang Asset Management, but I did not come across anything outstanding by Ms. Kirkpatrick. I will say that the site itself “feels” like there are very few employees at the company. http://www.langasset.com/i_aboutus.htm
Even searching under “SafeWealth” only a few hits come up they are virtually all ads. Interestingly enough, here are the reviews hyped for the book of Prechter’s “Conquer the Crash”, in which SafeWealth is clearly touted as a major firm to entrust your assets to.
Here are some early reviews:
"After reading Conquer the Crash carefully, I am saying that this is “must reading” for anyone who has even the slightest interest in the stock market and his or her own investing. Prechter’s fascinating chapters on the Federal Reserve, the debt situation, and what he calls the coming deflation, is worth ten times the price of the book alone. This is an amazing work, and one that is calculated to make you think deeply. I might even say that this book will astound you with its theses and its conclusions."
- Richard Russell
"Conquer the Crash is required reading. It contains some of the clearest, easiest-to-understand material I’ve ever read on Elliott wave. But more important, its real charm, and its usefulness, comes from the fact that Bob Prechter is writing for average folks who probably haven’t really given much thought to what might happen to the economy in the years ahead. And while some of the insights in Conquer the Crash are scary enough, this isn’t really a doom-and-gloom piece. It’s chock full of practical tips for specific actions you can and should take right now."
- Timothy L. Bost,
Editor, Financial Cycles
"After I read the book, I gave it to my wife to read and then ordered a copy for each one of my three sons. I urge all investors to read this book to understand what is ahead of us. Then read it to prepare yourself financially to weather the storms that are surely coming."
"This is the most crucial financial period in your life. This book explains why. It also tells you what you should do about it. If you want to preserve your wealth, I urge you to follow Prechter's advice. You will be grateful that you did."
The Long Wave anal cyst
"Conquer the Crash provides disciplined investors with a map, compass and survival guide. Don't leave home without it."
-Henry Van der Eb
President, Gabelli Mathers Fund
"A compelling exposition of how both the mechanics and the psychology of the business cycle can be encapsulated in market analysis."
"Prechter knows the facts like few others. Read his forceful argument carefully. It can save you from financial loss."
-James R. Cook
President, Investment Rarities
"Conquer the Crash is an awesome piece of research based upon intellectual integrity, profound realism and logic. The book lays one of the essential cornerstones of capital preservation. If you argue with its premises or dismiss its conclusions, the price could well be your permanent loss of wealth."
Founder & CEO, The SafeWealth Group
"This book outlines brilliantly and simply the rationale for how and why the bubble developed. Prechter will go down in history as a legend for having predicted the secular bull market and now having provided a lucid description of the economic cataclysm that unfortunately lies ahead. I urge you to read this book and give it to your loved ones, as it provides great tactical advice on how to prepare yourself financially. Reading this book could make the difference between agony and comfort over the next twenty years."
Prudent Bear Fund
"Bob Prechter's new book, Conquer the Crash, provides a wealth of self-help do's and don'ts. It's a must-read book, which I'm personally putting on my gift list for friends and loved ones."
- Martin D. Weiss, Ph.D.
author of the national best seller,
The Ultimate Safe Money Guide
Conquer the Crash ensures that at least some investors will stay on the “rational” side of a very emotional future.
Patterns are structured and rational, while human emotions are impulsive and sudden. Prechter’s genius is to show the exquisite relationship between the two truths, and what those truths mean to our social, economic and financial future.
CEO, Asset Allocation Consultants, Ltd<<
Those are some reviews! And, I must admit some of the reviewers I admire very much. But, I cannot help but wonder about Prechter and SafeWealth. I’m probably crazy having dedicated this much effort to this little project, God knows I have piles of other responsibilities to work on. Oh well, I’m just driven to find the truth about things and this kind of stuff drives me nuts. What think you fellow Stoolies?
Posted 14 January 2003 - 12:26 AM
Thanks for all your research, Mega. What I say is, it sounds REAL suspicious to me. Better off with The End or Ike if people want managed accounts.
Although a degree in criminology would be helpful to investors these days
Of course I'm caustic!
Posted 14 January 2003 - 12:40 AM
Thanks for sharing the results of your research. The problem begins with the name: Safewealth is hardly a name that would be chosen by a discreet Swiss operation aimed at the rich. The lack of info on the individuals involved does not bode well.
There are plenty of ways to prepare for a crash. I wonder what Prechter is up to. It certainly doesn't pass my smell test.
Posted 14 January 2003 - 12:56 AM
The language looks like Malay or Bahasa Indonesia - they are very similar to each other but I bet ThorAss can read it and say for sure. My bet is Bahasa Indonesia.
Posted 14 January 2003 - 01:41 AM
I have subscribed to SafeWealth for the last couple of years.
They are specialized in assisting "high net worth" individuals find ways to diversify. This primarily involves making connections with a couple of Swiss banks that meet some fairly stringent standards with regard to 'dependabilty,' and setting up some other investment opportunities in precious metals and swiss annuities.
If you are not seeking some connections in Switzerland for the purposes of banking, or setting up depositories, they would be a little interest. Since I was, and in particular wanted to keep abreast of some of the changes in Swiss banking regulations especially with regard to US citizens, they are useful for me. Their views on currencies and some special reports they do are good. I used to live in Switzerland.
There are much better alternatives that I use as well for most people. For simple diversity in currencies, everbank.com is a place to look into, although I am not entirely comfortable with their new owners.
Weiss ratings are probably the better source of information with regard to domestic banks.
Posted 14 January 2003 - 01:47 AM
The language is Malaysian (or Indonesian) as lostitall said the languages are very very similar.
cari lima means found five in these languages as in "Polis cari lima lelaki" - the police found five men. So I don't think it adds anything to your knowledge of Ms Lima.
Posted 14 January 2003 - 03:42 AM
When ROME fell the "wealth" Gold and Silver was already gone... To Europe, England, France, and (I suspect) Switzerland. It has been used as the basis for fractional reserve banking ever since...
The Federal Reserve is subservient to the Bank of England… take a look at a map and note the size of England in relation to the US or even Canada. The Pound is worth more than the US Dollar… Hint # 1
England had it’s biggest trade deficit in 300 years in 2002 of 3.6 Billion… Hint # 2
Where does all the compound interest that the FEDERAL RESERVE collects on the money it creates out of thin air go? Supposedly to the US treasury but statistics form a book in the 1970’s said the total compound interest collected since 1913 was equal to 7 Trillion 1970’s dollars… Where is this money/wealth now? Hint #3
I don’t go too far because it is too monstrous to pursue or contemplate for very long because no one can handle that truth or comprehend it, I have a hard time sometimes living day to day knowing there is no help for the curiosity that killed the cat except death…
I did go further but it is the realm of tinfoil hats and proof is what is needed but unfortunately it is me vs. 6 billion people under the total control of compound interest…
Money and power is forbidden knowledge…
All I know is that the Constitution of the United States of America is the most feared document/concept ever created… The goal has been to destroy it and it looks like it is almost complete… The Axis of Evil is a trap and the wrong direction.
That is why there is no escape… I am one of the few people that knows about and comprehends the powers that be.
That is the real doom which is stalking us/you…
Just tell the ones you love that you love them and try and forget my moment of weakness… You don’t want to go where I have been…yet, but eventually you will it is only a matter of time and time never ends.
WHY, is a question that eternity can not solve and no matter how badly you want to die you never will, but you can forget, and that is HEAVEN…
When the Earth is consumed by the SUN where do you go? Good question…
Break out the straitjacket…
"We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money (at the request of the consumer) we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system.... It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon." --Robert H. Hemphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank,1938...
Posted 14 January 2003 - 09:22 AM
Sigmoid: It is good to have the input from someone who has actually dealt with SF directly; it sounds like you are pleased with the results and I am genuinely happy for you. However, I am not looking for Everbank etc.; that was not the point. I did not make note of the minimum required by SF as if it was the issue in question. Most Swiss banks require very large minimum deposits; that's a given. The question is, are these people truly truth worthy. I don't know the answer; they very well may be. But, personally, I like to see a man's reputation before I judge him. What has he done in the past that I can associate with his moral character, intelligence and status in his field? The battle cry for all of us should be "Remember Enron!" a huge (make that massive) world renowned, highly respected company that bilked hundreds of millions from the common men and kings alike. Had the people who dealt with Enron gone to the trouble of investigating the reputation and background of its leaders, I think the outcome may have been different. But, it is easy to "assume" that the money, the connections and the facade of success is built upon years of reputable business practices. This could be a fatal assumption. When a scam is devised involving BIG money, the best actors are brought in and it is difficult, even impossible to tell whether they are "for real". (Mind you, I am NOT saying this is a scam) I just believe it to be prudent, no - imperative that one look into the past for associations before trusting an associate with ones hard earned assets. Where are their reputations; I see them not and that makes me leery.
In his infamous book, “The Prince”, Nicolo Machiavelli tells of an ancient Prince who was the most cunning and successful ever to live. Machiavelli praised this Prince’s genius. But, in essence all he was was the consummate liar and actor. He was so charming and convincing and capable of coming up with a plausible story for his actions that men and kings fell to his deceit. (ala Prince Enron). None of them stopped to review his reputation in the cold hard light of day. They were so enamored with his very being. There is no question that there are men today that fashion themselves after this Machiavellian principle and some of those men reside in high place of power. This type of character is so convincing that even the minions that work for them are actually taken in by their act. And, when that is the case, those representatives, (who truly are honest and sincere) are unaware of the fact that they are unwittingly selling the wares of a leader with an ulterior motive.
I’m am sure that if Kenneth Lay of Enron wanted to, he could have met you or me (any of us on this board) and he could have wined us, dined us, flew us to Switzerland to meet his personal banker; he could have had us eating out of his hand. I guess its human nature to “want” to believe the fairy tale is true. How then can we ever be sure about our fellow man? Reputation – Reputation - Reputation.
Posted 14 January 2003 - 03:57 PM
Ya it's Bahasa Indonesia and not worth diddly. "Police search for 5 'pawang hujan'" Ho ho that's Rainstoppers or the opposite of Rainmakers.
I have many opinions; but I strive not to act on them.
Posted 14 January 2003 - 05:30 PM
How about some reading matrials for the fool
Posted 26 October 2009 - 04:43 PM
Hi, I'm new here...
I found this old post on Google while trying to research if SafeWealth Group in Switzerland is a legit company. Robert Prechter at Elliottwave still recommends them highly, but there is nothing to find about them on the web. Steve Moyer also recommends them (based on what he read in Conquer the Crash by Prechter)
I've received SafeWealth's reports for a while and they often use Elliott wave charts from Prechter, but sometimes they have their own Elliott wave charts with seemingly the opposite prediction to Prechter.
Also in their material it says something like that they do not guarantee any money invested through them...
I find their 'website' unprofessional looking, and I found them unprofessional in the way they spoke to me on the phone, nothing I can put my finger on, just not the way I expect a firm that deals with a lot of money to treat their potential clients. I expect them to be able to explain who they are and what they do, and I really just got some short flippant answers back. I don't understand why Prechter recommends them...
Does anyone know anything about Safewealth?
Or does anyone know somewhere safe to park some money for a while - not neccessarily making money on it or hiding it from the IRS, just primarily keeping it safe. Ideally also being able to move it around between currencies or short the market or buy commodities ect., but there probably isn't such a magical place...
The Daily Stool - Stock Market Message Board