B4 the Bell, Weeeek End Thread

[beardrech]

Beardrech,

 

Wilson found some of the greatest written use of the

idolizing of Elizabeth in the prayers that grant her the

status of not only the head of the church, but also of the

second maid in heaven He partially excuses the extreme

glorification by believing that "patriotic Englishmen

unconsciously half shifted their affection for a sacred

Virgin to profane." The picture of Elizabeth as God's

handmaiden on earth, who was venerated as such during her

reign is aided by Wilson's mention of her use of the royal

healing touch, a miracle which also aided the public to

view her in the light of extreme holiness.

 

 

http://www.studyworld.com/newsite/ReportEs...Idol-322058.htm

 

Drech--Google these words --elizabeth the first virgin queen marian worship

 

I'm not sure, but think the word Marian with an an at the end is the key here. I don't know if mariola is a word. Marianism is the study of or devotion to all things Mary.

 

http://www.culturekiosque.com/nouveau/cinema/rheeliza.html

Threadbare

Thank you very much for the sites --and implicitly you've complimented me on creating a neologism which i would proud to accept except that I believe i read it somewhere--the suffix is a rather pejorative as in "IDOLATRY" but i didn't mean it in that sense--it simply was th efirst word i could think of

 

Iread the wilson study site but not the second one---My suggestion to you is this--try reading Wilson,Levin,Strong and King as if it were yesterdays morning newspaper,substituting as many terms in the essays with some of our contemporary political figures as well as political institutions---in other words secularise the semantics as intensely as possible and see what you come out with--

 

Then try to present this thesis to your dearest friends to see what the reaction---I'll bet you not one in a thousand will have the foggiest about what you are referring to

 

beardrech :cry: BD what is that book in your hand about????

====Angelology;because bears and monks have something in common :disputing the number of Angels that can dance on the head of a pin

[traderfromhell]

You know it's a slow day when Thread and Beardrech engage in a dissertation on Elizabeth the Virgin Queen and do so in full view of a group whose only exposure to the Arts is wondering who is working the pole at the Boom, Boom Room!

[The brown one]

You know it's a slow day when Thread and Beardrech engage in a dissertation on Elizabeth the Virgin Queen and do so in full view of a group whose only exposure to the Arts is wondering who is working the pole at the Boom, Boom Room!

That really is incredibly funny B4

[Brisbane Bear]

N.Ron,

 

I just read Aussiebears thoughts on the Aussie economy and it appears we are seeing things completely differently,but I might add we are talking chalk and cheese here.I live in a major city with a population of nearly 3 million people (SE-Qld) and Aussiebear lives in a mining town in outback Western Australia-Kalgoolie=population less than 25000,this is like comparing Florida with some desert mining town in Arizona ...now places like Kalgoolie are absolutely booming,same as many mining towns in outback Qld,these places are as tough as nails,real wild,wild west places,I have moved many executives to various mining towns throughout Qld,real eye openers to us city folk,tough ,hard places with tough ,hard people,great when things are booming,but they die slow ,painful deaths when the boom turns to bust,which happens often.

 

Also I did not say that half the Malls are empty,I said 5 shops closed this past week,plus another 3 in a smaller shopping centre near my home.

 

I am looking to short a major mall owner if things start to deteriorate more rapidly.

 

All I hear in OZ is how bullish everything is all the time,what I have been looking for is cracks in this bullish scenario and I am starting to see them.

 

I want to factually report things as I see them,I do not want to embellish my posts in any way shape or form.

 

I know that Doc and others say that this is all just news noise and only liquidity matters,and I agree that they are right,but I need to see things deteriorating first hand,this makes me far more confident in my bearish position.The snowball effect takes over at some point in time,which is still quite a ways away yet, 8 shops does not make a recession,80 might.

 

When I see shops and businesses going broke,and real estate falling I know we are a rough chance in being right.

 

It is a fact that apartment prices are in freefall in most major cities,it is a fact that retail spending dropped 1% last month instead of rising 1.7%,it is a fact that interest rates are rising in OZ,it is a fact that real estate has well and truly come off the boil,it is a fact that 8 shops have closed in the past 2 weeks...does this mean we are gunna fall off a cliff,I dont know but at least it is heading in the right direction for a change,anyway stay tuned,I will let you know how things pan out over the next month or so.

 

My opinion is that we are heading for a very severe recession,but that is just my opinion,I will try to make sure future posts are seperated into fact and opinion more clearly so as to not confuse .

 

I would like to hear from others in OZ in regards to what people are seeing.

 

Also just remember the old saying.."If the US sneezes ,Australia catchs the Pneumonia"...we wont be going anywhere if the US tanks,neither will anyone else for that matter..China,Japan or any other country.

We are all in this together.

[Big Doo Doo]

The Al Leeson debt rocket launch ... when the afterburners flameout ... it will be very ugly:

[Jorma]

BO,  I haven't been following the NL pension story closely, but was wondering if this isn't recognition that early retirement is on the way out, and 65+ is going to be more the norm.  If, as you suggest, 30% take out the cash-out option, I wonder how many would actually save enough on their own to still be able to take early retirement.  And what about the solidarity contribution - I take it the older workers would simply lose out on the opportunity to retire earlier.

 

For all the talk of giving people autonomy over their pension options, to me it seems more like the beginning of a trend back towards higher retirement ages.  After all, the working population has so many financial pressures from all those who are not working, whether it be early retirement or disability driven, it's a miracle to me that the system is still functioning at all.

I think the idea is that early retirement has just been cancelled.The system cannot afford it.It is possible for the top guys but that's because when they were headhunted by their present company 10 years ago their company had to buy off the pension arrangement with the previous company for millions--otherwise the guy stayed put.

 

For the ordinary Joe I would suspect that the gubmint wants to keep him working because of his tax contribution to the Treasury.When he retires, so do many of his contributions to things like un-employmnt benefit and disability insurance.And he's at the top of his salary scale--ie more tax than a 20year-old!

 

Sooner or later I expect the 36 hour week to be abandoned and return to 38-40 hrs/week.Demographics for the West are all shot for the future.No young "arbeidslustige" immigrants,birth rate below death rate in the indigenous population--what's gubmint to do?

It's best to just eliminate the early part and just know that retirement itself, as something most expect in the form of income from 'investment' by themselves or their defined benifit plan, is a dying concept. Perhaps the idea was an impossible dream.

 

It was 'conservative' dogma as late as 1960 that pensions for workers was a bad thing. The security made for poorly motivated workers don't you know. Then Wall St. discovered what a great source of money all retirement plans were and that meme died, except for the vestigal hatred of SS which evidences itself now mostly as Wall Streets anger over not getting that money too.

 

One way to think about the bear case is that Wall St. has sucked about all the savings it can out of the system, redistributing it to the top, so now it's time to close the show, for awhile.

 

If we bears are wrong then of course I'm wrong on this too. Dow 36,000 or 100, 000 or whatever will cure most problems.

 

To me the lottery offers a better probability of a payoff.

 

Then again, the new era of State Capitalism is just getting going and could work out. Given a choice of freedom or financial freedom the vast majority will choose the latter. (In fact I maintain that the American Dream has always been financial freedom) THe school book civics thing was nice but for most it's a show me the money thing which means freedom.

[Big Doo Doo]

Marty Weiss in his Monday letter points out that last weeks release of Housing figures shows the supply of new homes at a 25 year high while at the same time new home sales are tumbling. He goes on to say that rents are dropping like a stone as the nation wide Vacancy rate is now 10.4% a figure not seen in 40 years. His summation "Sell Mortimer Sell" particularily Vacation Homes and Commercial Real Estate which will be the hardest hit..and if you have more house than you need or a big mortgage...dump it now! Sound advice Methinks!

B4,

 

Also looks like the trend for new housing starts has reversed and now has a downward bias.

 

Short the sheet out of the homebuilders, 'cause this bubble is busted !

[Guest]

Brisbane Bear,

 

I didn't mean to question or second guess your experiences at all. I apologize if I came across that way. I'm not even qualified to do that; I've never been to Australia in my life. In addition to the differences between your location and Aussiebear's, as you pointed out, I imagine the two of you may live as much as 2,000 kilometers apart. That alone can, and often does, produce major differences.

 

I believe both of you, and that is what I find interesting. I've read enough posts from both of you to trust that what I read is level-headed, realistic, and honest -- from each of you. What I find interesting is how different the basic conditions are, from place to place, in Australia. I find it interesting in how much it contrasts the US, where everything is so homogenized. Sadly, the reality of the US is that "comparing Florida with some desert mining town in Arizona," as you put it, reveals no difference at all, once you sratch even one millimeter below the surface. The desert mining towns in Arizona are tourist traps, with kitschy recreations of a reality long since gone, for the consumption by tourists from people from places like Florida, who have the money to burn as the result of flipping real estate in a bubble.

 

That's why I fear, even with Australia in the lead, that when it really pops here in the US, it will be much worse for us than it will ever get for you in Australia. I agree that "we" (i.e. the Plutocrats of each nation-state) are all in this together. When the US stumbles, some countries, such as Japan, will be in VERY deep shit. All other countries will be smacked to some degree. At least Australia has resources, and you all might not suffer as much. This is just my WAG on the matter.

[machinehead]

BO,? I haven't been following the NL pension story closely, but was wondering if this isn't recognition that early retirement is on the way out, and 65+ is going to be more the norm.? If, as you suggest, 30% take out the cash-out option, I wonder how many would actually save enough on their own to still be able to take early retirement.? And what about the solidarity contribution - I take it the older workers would simply lose out on the opportunity to retire earlier.

 

For all the talk of giving people autonomy over their pension options, to me it seems more like the beginning of a trend back towards higher retirement ages.? After all, the working population has so many financial pressures from all those who are not working, whether it be early retirement or disability driven, it's a miracle to me that the system is still functioning at all.

I think the idea is that early retirement has just been cancelled.The system cannot afford it.It is possible for the top guys but that's because when they were headhunted by their present company 10 years ago their company had to buy off the pension arrangement with the previous company for millions--otherwise the guy stayed put.

 

For the ordinary Joe I would suspect that the gubmint wants to keep him working because of his tax contribution to the Treasury.When he retires, so do many of his contributions to things like un-employmnt benefit and disability insurance.And he's at the top of his salary scale--ie more tax than a 20year-old!

 

Sooner or later I expect the 36 hour week to be abandoned and return to 38-40 hrs/week.Demographics for the West are all shot for the future.No young "arbeidslustige" immigrants,birth rate below death rate in the indigenous population--what's gubmint to do?

It's worth recalling that when the retirement age was set at 65 in the Social Security Act of 1935, the U.S. life expectancy was around 60 years. Reference. In other words, only a minority even lived to collect a retirement pension.

 

U.S. life expectancy is now 77.2 years. Reference.

 

Social security already has been amended to provide for the retirement age to increase to 67. But the net result is that life expectancy has advanced from 5 years less than the retirement age, to 10 years beyond it. Add Medicare to that equation, and you have an explosion in costs.

 

In an affluent society, people should be able to retire without working until they drop dead. However, it's clear that the existing system is not soundly financed.

 

Apparently, the political nature of the system resulted in a 'golden age' during which retirees got benefits far greater than what their 'contributions' could have financed ... to be followed by a 'dark age' in which many will receive only a pittance, and quite likely less than what they put in.

 

This is not news ... the problems with Social Security became obvious in 1973 when the 'growth miracle' stopped. And Alan Greenspan served on a commission to 'fix' it in 1983.

 

Yet, because it isn't popular to cut back on benefits (or to cut back on other expenditures in order to fund benefits), the needed changes weren't made in a timely manner. Now more drastic changes are needed.

 

Jorma attributes to this to 'uncompassionate conservatism.' I'd counter that many would have been better off saving for themselves, rather than depending on imprudently managed public programs, which to this day exempt themselves from ERISA (the 1974 act governing private pension plans), and from ANY fiduciary responsibility to beneficiaries. That's criminal -- but owing to sovereign immunity, you can't sue them either. Boils my conservative blood, it does ...

[DrStool]

I'm ba-a-a-a-ack.

 

Safely, if temporarily, stationed at my cousin't home in Woodbridge VA, about 20 miles south of DC. I'll be here until Friday at least. Should be able to get caught up on most regular features, and will be back in Stooltrading tomorrow morning.

 

I hear that my house is ok, but reportedly lots of trees down in the neighborhood. No power yet. Waiting now to see what IVAN does. Oops, I mean Ivan.

 

Tanks to all subscribers for your patience and support!

 

Later!

 

Tanks to all subscribers for your patience and support!

[Big Doo Doo]

Doc,

 

If you need a midpoint stayover on the drive back, let me know.

 

I am in Columbia, SC and can put ya in a real comfortable place for a night.

 

Glad that your home survived !

[DrStool]

Just having spent 3 days in Atlanta, I was shocked at how bad things are there. Vacant stores abound in the malls. A big Macy's vacant downtown. Restaurants 2/3 empty on Fri and Sat night. Except for the gleaming skyscrapers, and some really nice old residential neighborhoods, I was surprised at how shabby and downtrodden the place looked, behind the facade of bombast and grandiosity. Something is wrong there. Saw an article in the Atlanta Journal Constitution that households incomes in the last 3 years have dropped to, or below the level hit in 1990, after a huge boom in the 90s.

 

Any Atlantans have any stories from there?

[Hiding Bear]

If we bears are wrong then of course I'm wrong on this too. Dow 36,000 or 100, 000 or whatever will cure most problems.?

There is some chance that the solution to gigantic budget and trade deficits will result in high inflation over the next few years. The hyperbolic chart above of foreign (mostly state) directed investment in Treasuries is a good example of the direction the central banks of the world appear to be going. In that case, you may see 36000 Dow, but the US price of gasoline will be $10.00 per gallon.

[DrStool]

Tanks DooDoo! Probably will take the auto train back. If not, will try to get to Jville, or at least Savannah on the first day. Leaves a short trip on day 2.

[BeerMarket]

this one's for the coincidence theorists:

 

A Case Not Yet Closed

In his new book, Graham claims the president coddled the Saudis and pursued a war against Saddam Hussein that only diverted resources from the more important fight against Al Qaeda. Graham was furious when the White House blacked out 28 pages of the inquiry's final report that dealt with purported Saudi links to the 9/11 plot. Graham says much of the deleted evidence centered around the activities of a mysterious Saudi then living in San Diego named Omar al-Bayoumi, whom Graham calls a Saudi government "spy." Al-Bayoumi befriended two of the key 9/11 hijackers, Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi, when they first arrived in the country.

 

Oil eases as Saudi offers discounts

LONDON (Reuters) - Oil prices eased on Monday as top world exporter Saudi Arabia slashed prices for its crude sales to the United States and Europe in an effort to shift the large volumes it is offering to cool world markets.