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B4 the Bell Fryday, Aug 27, 2004


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#211 machinehead

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 08:14 PM

Here at B4theBell, vs some other boards, we seem, so far, to have been able to accomodate the widely divergent views of many, many fine minds, without the acrimony which has so frequently driven folks from CapitalStool.

While I am a bear, I NEED to hear differing views so that I can adjust my own thinking, To me, the most important thing is #1, my own survival, #2, survival of my family, loved ones, and perhaps, my value system which is different from that of my loved ones. #3 would be the capability of me and mine to financially sustain ourselves.
I simply don't have all the answers.
Neither does any one else, as Doc would say.  But by sharing our differing views
maybe we can collectively find ways to survive and even more, find ways to
alter our political/financial systems so that many other members of Planet Earth
can also survive.

Welcome back, jrfml.  Together here, maybe we will succeed in informing each other.

Sherlock  :cry:

Ditto.

As Maynard Keynes might have said, you are one of the "stabilizers" here and I always appreciate your comments, Sherlock.
"GOLD -- it's not just for misers anymore."

"Dollahs -- fire-starters for the K-wave winter." - Drano

"Three humps and a dump." - anotherone, 21 SEP 2004

"No gold was harmed in the making of this movie." - Bizarro Greenspan

[i]"Da Track. Da place where Morons bet on Animals Controlled by Criminals."
- our jickiss

#212 Butterfield 8

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 08:18 PM

Just heard the market monitor on Nightly Business Report predict Dow 10,900 by December. He's in Chubb, Weyrhauser and FCX. Sounded like your everyday shill, which is not typical of that show.

#213 anotherone

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 08:25 PM

moments away from the top of the hour assblast right thru 1110 to 1115.  have this bad feeling

Nice top of the hour assblast. My short positions are getting slaughtered. :grin: :grin:

uh...the Republican National convention starts on Monday...Monday is a Monday...the disruption of oil could not push the price higher, and no matter what happens next week, it's going to be bullish.

Choices are:

Up on high volume
Up on medium volume
Up on low volume
Flat on low volume
Closed.

DOWN THE CRAPPER
"Calista Flockhart's top is not near as significant as Maria's bottom."
--"Zapata" George Blake 8/5/2003

#214 The brown one

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 08:39 PM

http://www.cbsnews.c...ain639143.shtml

(CBS) CBS News has learned that the FBI has a full-fledged espionage investigation under way and is about to -- in FBI terminology -- "roll up" someone agents believe has been spying not for an enemy, but for Israel from within the office of the Secretary of Defense at the Pentagon.

60 Minutes Correspondent Lesley Stahl reports the FBI believes it has "solid" evidence that the suspected mole supplied Israel with classified materials that include secret White House policy deliberations on Iran.

Just read that too on our Teletext.Apparently the mole was very close to Wolfowitz and involved at the highest levels at the Pentagon!

Mind you,I never did think that the mob there ever were acting in the interests of United States !

#215 stained jeans

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 08:43 PM

Not saying he should not been punished, but 25 years? Something is seriously wrong out there folks.

Then I'll say it. He shouldn't be punished.

And the kids who hung out the banner should be given medals for their prank. First degree assault my ass...

#216 Butterfield 8

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 08:55 PM

oh Canada.

#217 Pee Brain

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 09:32 PM


"One policy that could enhance the odds of sustaining high levels of productivity growth is to engage in a long overdue upgrading of primary and secondary school education in the United States," he added, saying this would give a new generation of workers the skills they need to be competitive.

:mellow:  :huh:  :blink:  :mellow:  :huh:  :blink:

WTF???

Of course...that's the answer Dr Evil!

If we can just send the children of Burger Flippers and Retail Clerks off to re-education camps, the productivity of workers will rise exponentially in the near term!

Uh...wait a minute...tell me again how that works? We've got these workers who are already adults, and they have (purportedly) been increasing their "productivity" (human output of work units per hour) exponentially in recent quarters. Provided all of the data we've been hearing is in fact accurate, I'm with you so far. Now run that by me one more time how Working Adults, which I'll refer to as "Group A" - the group whose "productivity" must increase exponentially in perpetuity...tell me how it is that Group A's productivity increases in the near term (as would be required to keep the economy afloat) by educating those not yet in the workforce?

Ya sorta lost me on that one there, Dr. Evil!

It sounds to me like Dr. Evil is on the big ("I told you so") legacy building tour in advance of the fall of the Amerikkan Empire.

Plunger:

What is so hard to understand??

Its simple.

Get everyone enrolled in Waxie Parness' "Trend Trading to Win" or Carleton Sheets' "Get Rich in Real Estate" classes, and soon you will have an entire new generation of Action Junkies, HedgeFund managers, Fumble Managers, speculators, gamblers, property flippers, etc.

Productivity will be going parabolic, since speculation is now 90% of our GDP.

Our retired population will be able to live off the riches of huge windfall profits obtained by exporting Financial Exotica to the rest of the world............


Can i get a govt-guaranteed school loan for those courses?
Iat least we're all safe for now. thank God we're in a bowling alley.

#218 DrStool

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 09:32 PM

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#219

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 09:33 PM

Mark:

It's not appropriate for you to be in Brian's House giving advice to those who left your forum as their primary home. I stop over on your thread once in a while - and despite the fact that you are the sole reason why I came to CapitalStool.com, it became clear to me the you were simply too demeaning and callous toward many of the Stoolies whose opinions I value in the broad context of knowledge gathering and "thinking outside the box." Your opinions are of no less or no greater value than Hyper's. Some days you are incredibly correct...and some days you are incredibly wrong...just like me...just like everybody (with the exception of MH - who is in my opinion, a genius).

I understand that from your perspective, some opinions are worth less than others, but from my perspective, that fact has cost you a portion of your loyal following. It did not need to be that way. Brian didn't start this forum out of his own desire to have a following, he started this forum as a result of your disrespect for his and other's opinions. You publicly called- Brian-out about his trading style and how it was that he managed to make money in such an F'd-up market. He has since proven to all of us how he does, but you have never acknowledged publicly that you were wrong, and that his trading style is worthy of praise. I never realized how much the SPOOS trading affected everything until I started paying attention to what Brian was up to.

From my own perspective, there is no such thing as a "wrong opinion." We all have opinions, we are all right many times, and we are all wrong many times. I'm wrong more than I'm right, but everything that I type is in fact "my opinion" at the time that I type it...and therefore it is in fact "right" at that time from my own perspective.

When you interpret other people's words from your own perspective, or you pass judgement on them as being "off center" - "unenlightened," "unstable" or any other duragatory term you might attribute, it only reflects negatively on you in a community environment.

Brian did not want to leave Mark To Market, and neither did the rest of us. You caused what has occured. Your suddenly frequent presence here (in the knowledge of Brian's absence) is telling. You have never posted more in this thread than you are right now. This also coincides with your knowledge of Brian's absence from the thread (particularly intraday). What's that about?

I appreciate your opinions and your input, but I really hate it when you put other people down in public. It you were actually concerned about Hypertiger's well being, your most recent comment to him would have been in the form of a private personal message to the person behind the Hypertiger avatar, not in a public forum with the intent to demean.

It's quite obvious to all that Mark-to-Market has experienced a dramatic decline in visitors and postings since the launch of B4 The Bell. You drew the line in the sand, you made many people with opinions divergent to your own feel unwelcome and this is the result. I appreciate divergent opinions from my own, and I hope that nobody here ever agrees with me all the time.

I'm looking for knowledge and diversity of opinion here, and Hypertiger's opinion, while extreme, defines the outside edge of the knowledge base upon which I draw to come to educated conclusions about the world we live in. Your opinions are as valuable as his...and his are as valuable as yours. This is the cornerstone of an online community....in essence RESPECT FOR ALL OPINIONS.

Demeaning the opinions of others in a public forum is a frontal assault that has no place in online communities. We are all well served by a diversity of opinion that is contrary to our own. It is the most valuable benefit that we enjoy from this place that Doc affords us the opportunity to be a part of. His only request of us is that we treat one another with respect. I find it to be a simple rule to follow in return for the value I receive. The time and thought that you put into your forum is to be admired and respected, and I love to read your stuff and hear your opinions, but it only injurs you when you demean others. I know you are only kidding many times when you take jabs at others, but you need to consider that this is a very unique community with some souls that are out on the fringes, and as a result, might be more fragile and less resilient than others.

When one flippent comment results in the loss of one of these amazing opinion-makers, we are all injured by their loss.

Hyper: I'd like to personally thank you for the amazing amount of time you spend to provide us with a view that none of us could ever comprehend on our own. Your work is valuable and appreciated. I hate the fact that you lump every one of us together as blind and ignorant to the pending collapse of civilization as we know it, but don't ever stop. I feel as though you are referring to me as a total moron everytime you make such blanket statements, but then again, I cannot rule out the possibility that I am in fact a total moron...but I can't wait to read your next rant...and the same is true of Mark's, Brian's and every other opinion expressed here.

If you are new to this forum and have yet to express your opinion...you are depriving all of us of something of value. Join the party, whether here or in Mark-To-Market, or in both. Make your opinion known, subscribe to the Anals...support Doc - be a Stoolie.

Kind regards - Plunger

#220 Pee Brain

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 09:35 PM

An aging U.S. population will strain public finances and hurt the economy without swift fixes to the social safety net, such as raising the age for full retirement benefits, Federal Reserve (news - web sites) Chairman Alan Greenspan (news - web sites) said Friday.

I have no problem with this. Unfortunately, as I understand it, when you start collecting Social Security the payment is based on your most recent pay (maybe the rules have changed). Most people who retire at age 85 won't be earning at the level (inflation adjusted) they did earlier in their careers.


wrong, they send out statements, i think its based upon the top 10 yearning years - contact SS and they;ll let you know where you stande.
Iat least we're all safe for now. thank God we're in a bowling alley.

#221 ShitEatingGrinner

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 09:45 PM

Hola, Stoolies...


Some woman stock shill knocked on my front door today. From a well known investment type firm. Like AG Edwards or some crap. Can't remember which one... She told me she had been investing in the stock markets since the age of 22. She could retire, she said, but she loves working with people...helping people with their financial future. So she's out canvassing my neighborhood in 100 degree, humid Dallas heat at two in the afternoon...hahahahaha Retire, my ass... She was in her late fifties/early sixties and out doing grunt work...


I told her all stocks go to zero eventually. You should have seen her face. It was priceless. Like I was from another planet. She was pushing IRAs. Trotted out her examples...Walmart and Anhueser-Busche...how they've made people rich since the early eighties. I pointed out that those were two stocks of thousands. She gave me the usual crap analysis of buy and hold nonsense.

I told her we were in a secular bear market and I'd be interested in stock when the bottom was in. You'd have thought I said the earth was flat. She told me the market had bottomed in 2002 and the bear market was officially over back then.

"Cyclical or secular?" I asked. She didn't know what the crap I was talking about.

"If you were waiting for the bottom, you missed it."

She had no answers for any other macro/micro economics question I tossed out. Only the same old "buy and hold for the long term and you'll do well."

I told her it took the Dow 30 years to regain the 29 peak...that if you don't buy at the right time, you're pissing your money away...that the survivor bias of the indexes are what put the upward slope on their charts...all stocks go to zero eventually. She asked me what books I've been reading in that scoffing, condescending exasperated sort of manner. Told me that she had a chart on her desk showing how two years after the 29 crash, stocks were higher than their previous peak--but couldn't tell me what index... That's why I checked the NYSE. Here's the result:

http://www.advanced-...com/chartLT.htm

Looks like it took the NYSE almost thirty years...I hope she calls on me again some time so I can continue to pour factually accurate crap bombs on her delusional, silly dreams of stock market riches for bagholders.

She at least knew there were five hundred U.S. auto companies at one time and only 2 survive today. Guess she didn't understand the odds involved in buying and holding the right two. I asked her about precious metals, and she was scoffy. They do good during inflationary periods, but we've done a good job of eliminating inflation...I laughed. She asked me when was the last time we had double digit inflation, as if that has any relevance. Might as well ask me when was the last time it rained--to predict the next time it will rain...

She brought out the Buffet stuff--never sell stock in a good company...so I pointed out he owned a big chunk of silver.
"It's less than one percent of his holdings," she said. True, I told her, but it's a big chunk of the silver market. Don't guess she understood the puny size of the silver market cause it didn't mean anything to her.

I was quite entertained by this encounter today. The top may be in, or may not be in in the stock slop carnival, but door to door stock shills whoring themselves out for new cash flow has got to be a sign of something...


Back in grad school now, not much time for this watching of markets. Long gold and silver and waiting for the end...or until I sell a book ;) good luck with the coming, post election shitstorm folks--you know, the one where martial law gets declared, a draft reinstated, more wars for imperial glory get prosecuted. Did you all know that under Tsar Alexander in the early 19th century, the term for conscripted serfs was twenty five years? Wheeeeeeeee. Wonder what Emperor Dubyer's gonna make it? :ph34r: Or will it be Mooseface Kerry?

#222

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 09:49 PM

http://www.cbsnews.c...ain639143.shtml

(CBS) CBS News has learned that the FBI has a full-fledged espionage investigation under way and is about to -- in FBI terminology -- "roll up" someone agents believe has been spying not for an enemy, but for Israel from within the office of the Secretary of Defense at the Pentagon.

60 Minutes Correspondent Lesley Stahl reports the FBI believes it has "solid" evidence that the suspected mole supplied Israel with classified materials that include secret White House policy deliberations on Iran.

Just read that too on our Teletext.Apparently the mole was very close to Wolfowitz and involved at the highest levels at the Pentagon!

Mind you,I never did think that the mob there ever were acting in the interests of United States !

Remember a couple weeks ago when Mike Wallace was roughed-up in Manhattan, handcuffed and taken into custody? Remember how, at that time, I came right out and stated that the "Powers That Be" were sending 60 Minutes a message to "BACK OFF"? I said at the time that this was no accident, but was intended to strike fear into the hearts of the 60 Minutes correspondents.

This Israeli Mole story is obviously the reason for the shake-down...and you can take that to the bank. It was 60 Minutes that exposed the Abu Gharaib fiasco, and you can count on the fact that Wolfowitz is next on the hit parade for a full-blown expose.

As the layers of this onion are peeled back, the game gets more serious. The entire "plan" is at risk as more and more is revealed.

Expect the unexpected.

#223 ShitEatingGrinner

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 09:54 PM

"I cannot rule out the possibility that I am in fact a total moron.."


:D :D :D :D


I'm in the process of having the possibility that I'm a total moron proven on a daily basis.

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 10:00 PM

Helen Thomas "goes off" on Rummy:

Time For Rumsfeld To Resign
Reports Place Blame At Top Levels

POSTED: 4:30 pm CDT August 27, 2004
The time has come for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to leave his Pentagon post, either by dismissal or resignation.

Two separate reports this week make it clear that Rumsfeld and other top Pentagon officials were ultimately responsible for the sadistic abuse of prisoners in Iraq's infamous Abu Ghraib.

A report by four-member panel headed by former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger traced the mistreatment of prisoners in Iraq to failures that went all the way up the chain of command in the Pentagon.

Another military report Wednesday said 27 persons attached to intelligence agencies, as well as four private contractors, participated in abuses, some tantamount to torture, of prisoners.

"We discovered serious misconduct and a loss of moral values," said Army Gen. Paul Kern, head of the investigation. This gives lie to early Pentagon efforts to paint the prison abuses as the work of a handful of low-level MPs, acting out their frustrations.

The Kern report also noted that eight "ghost detainees" were concealed from the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC). One of them died in custody.

http://www.channelci...989/detail.html

#225 beardrech

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 10:02 PM

I don't know about youse guys but I've had one nasty bitch of a week - and that's away from the markets.  Oddly people I talked to all over the country were having the same experience.  Seems like the effup was pretty much universal.  Bad Karma abounds. 

A cop gets a cut on a leg, probably because of stupidity and carelessness on his part and the "perp" gets 25 years?  Hell he may as well have shot him in the head he would get out sooner.  Damn good thing he didn't steal the President's pretzels.
Folks if we don't take back our country pretty damn soon, there won't be anything left to take back.

Talking to my mother last week and she told me about one of my cousins. Caught with $40 of meth. When asked if he had ever made meth, he replied yes. Got 25 years in prison for manufacturing and distribution. Not saying he should not been punished, but 25 years? Something is seriously wrong out there folks.

I always preface political remarks i may make by stating my age Seventy Years Old---the reason being that I'm quite unashamed to report my GUT feelings when available--and thats because after so many years I realise that I'm not as unique as I used to imagine myself being,and thus am confident that of I'm experiencing certain feelings (social-political) then millions like me are also undergoing the same--

Now the case above,although i'm not sympathetic to meth sellers) reminds me in some respescts of Jean Valjean,a charevcter in Victor Hugo's novel,Les Miserables-

I am not a revoltionary nor am I inclined to be, living here in America; but for the first time in my life I smell a pre-revolutionary atmosphere (see Yo bob's bad Kharma reference)--

And today Presidential nominee Frankenstein (I'm sorry but that's the way I feel) made a speech about credit card debtors and joblessness which struck a loud chord within me despite my BS detector being on the qui vivre--He, in my opinion is a demagogic mountebanc,but yet I still resonated like an empty drum to his BS because a lot of the stuff mixed up in his verbal sausage was, to many people, quite nourishing--The message about class antagonism and envy because "You've" been cheated" is begginning--

I dont think, as many others are now thinking, hes down for the count--
We are in perilous times
beardrech :ph34r: :ph34r: We shall see soon won't we==





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