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#76 mjkst27

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 06:35 PM

The USA had a window of opportunity after the invasion of Iraq, to create a government that involved all relevant parties in Iraq and to put the country on the path of democracy. I'm convinced of that. But the Bush government has squandered that opportunity.

How many latin american and african countries did the US have an "opportunity to start a democracy in" since WW2 ended (as all these little countries tied to sneak out from under their war-weakened imperial hegemons)? Dozens. What did the US do? Install right-wing military dictators. Why? So the big corpse interests could rape and pillage someone else's resources, and also to prevent honest to goodness democracy from becoming trendy. What's different about Iraq? Not much. The governmental/societal style implemented will be something called "communitarianism", which is basically a dressed-up and sober version of Soviet communism. The final Marxian synthesis, as it were. So maybe we're progressing LOL. Don't believe any of this? Don't worry, it's coming to a town near you, sometime in the next generation or two.

#77 BearHugs

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 06:37 PM

Have you folks seen this?

"Mr. Moto" posted it on Pru Bear BearChat today:

"Stress in the Interbank Market

"The total of interbank credit has soared within the past two months to a level only rivaled by the two-week episode in the same measure at 9/11.  Not even the period immediately prior to the century-date-change-event can match this comparatively sudden increase."

http://www.prudentbe...r=1&sb=1&snsa=A

It put me in mind of a paper Warren E. Pollack did a while ago on frequency of settlement fails.

Judging by the chart that he posted, it looks ominous to me. Do you have any thoughts NWD?


http://www.piraz.com...y/interbank.jpg

#78 mjkst27

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 06:38 PM

hell, it's here now. Communitarianism. I'm serious. Google it.

#79 mjkst27

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 06:40 PM

Here, I went and done did it myself...

sorry, scratch that. this is much better: the Gospel according to some guy named Amitai Etzioni, chief prophet of the Marx continuation society....

"We hold these truths:

We hold that a moral revival in these United States is possible without Puritanism; that is, without busybodies meddling into our personal affairs, without thought police controlling our intellectual life. We can attain a recommitment to moral values – without puritanical excesses.

We hold that law and order can be restored without turning this country of the free into a police state, as long as we grant public authorities some carefully crafted and circumscribed new powers.

We hold that the family – without which no society has ever survived, let alone flourished – can be saved, without forcing women to stay at home or otherwise violating their rights.

We hold that schools can provide essential moral education – without indoctrinating young people.

We hold that people can live in communities without turning to vigilantes or becoming hostile to one another.

We hold that our call for increased social responsibilities… is not a call for curbing rights. On the contrary, strong rights presume strong responsibilities.

We hold that the pursuit of self-interest can be balanced by a commitment to the community, without requiring us to lead a life of austerity, altruism, or self-sacrifice….

We hold that powerful special-interest groups in the nation’s capital, and in so many statehouses and city halls, can be curbed without limiting the constitutional right of the people to lobby and petition those who govern….

We hold these truths as Communitarians, as people committed to creating a new moral, social, and public order based on restored communities, without puritanism or oppression."

-Etzioni (1995: 1-2)


link

Right. And who is going to craft this beautiful utopia for all the world's people? Our oligarch handlers? it all sounds just like Marx/Hegelism to me. IMO the answer is individualism, the US constitution as intended by the founding fathers, and the Bill of Rights. That was the highest peak yet achieved by human civilization - i.e everything today's oligarchs don't want to take root.

#80 BearHugs

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 06:41 PM

Iraqi officials: Peace talks fail in Najaf

Al-Sadr's supporters descend on city after call from cleric



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Posted 14 August 2004 - 06:51 PM

And who is going to craft this beautiful utopia for all the world's people?Sounds like Marx/Hegelism to me.



Uh......Leo Strauss? :rolleyes:

#82 mjkst27

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 06:52 PM

whoa ho ho, from the same link, it gets MUCH better:

"The communitarian agenda for education
James Arthur (2000: 136-141) argues that ten basic themes run through the communitarian agenda for education:

1. The family should be the primary moral educator of children.

2. Character education includes the systematic teaching of virtues in schools.

3. The ethos of the community has an educative function in school life.

4. Schools should promote the rights and responsibilities inherent within citizenship.

5. Community service is an important part of a child's education in school.

6. A major purpose of the school curriculum is to teach social and political life-skills.

7. Schools should provide an active understanding of the common good.

8. Religious schools are able to operate a strong version of the communitarian perspective.

9. Many existing community-based education practices reflect the features of the communitarian perspective.

10. Schools should adopt a more democratic structure of operating."


What kind of people will come out of such schools? People who have no knowledge of history. This is a plan to erase history. Just like what has been done to the Soviet people. The Soviets were the prototype. That's why the American populace knows so little of the Soviet people and culture - if they knew what was coming down the pipe at 'em, they might still muster up a revolt. the Soviets have no attachment to their own history, so they feel no need to avoid repeating it

#83 stained jeans

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 06:55 PM

How many latin american and african countries did the US have an "opportunity to start a democracy in" since WW2 ended (as all these little countries tied to sneak out from under their war-weakened imperial hegemons)? Dozens. What did the US do? Install right-wing military dictators. Why? So the big corpse interests could rape and pillage someone else's resources, and also to prevent honest to goodness democracy from becoming trendy.

Word.

Only the politically naive believes that U.S. foreign policy promotes "democracy".

#84 stained jeans

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 06:58 PM

it all sounds just like Marx/Hegelism to me.

No Puritanism, no police state, social responsibility -- sounds pretty damned good to me. I don't care who though of it first... B)

#85 stained jeans

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 07:01 PM

What kind of people will come out of such schools? People who have no knowledge of history.

You mean like the current U.S. school system?

Kids do not learn history there -- they are taught historical pro U.S. propaganda.

#86 mjkst27

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 07:02 PM

it all sounds just like Marx/Hegelism to me.

No Puritanism, no police state, social responsibility -- sounds pretty damned good to me. I don't care who though of it first... B)

Wonderful marketing idn't it? Just note the fine print...

"as long as we grant public authorities some carefully crafted and circumscribed new powers"

#87 mjkst27

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 07:03 PM

What kind of people will come out of such schools? People who have no knowledge of history.

You mean like the current U.S. school system?

Kids do not learn history there -- they are taught historical pro U.S. propaganda.

oh yay. the plan's been in motion here for some time.

#88 mjkst27

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 07:06 PM

For the other side of the story, Niki Raapana has done some fantastic work, available on her website, Anti-Communitarian League

please check this site out, some incredible stuff there.

#89 stained jeans

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 07:07 PM

Wonderful marketing idn't it? Just note the fine print...

"as long as we grant public authorities some carefully crafted and circumscribed new powers"

OK. Got me there. Although I might be in favor of granting carefully crafted new powers if voiding many of the old powers were part of the bargain. :wink2:

#90 NWD

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Posted 14 August 2004 - 07:28 PM

Have you folks seen this?

"Mr. Moto" posted it on Pru Bear BearChat today:

"Stress in the Interbank Market

"The total of interbank credit has soared within the past two months to a level only rivaled by the two-week episode in the same measure at 9/11.  Not even the period immediately prior to the century-date-change-event can match this comparatively sudden increase."

http://www.prudentbe...r=1&sb=1&snsa=A

It put me in mind of a paper Warren E. Pollack did a while ago on frequency of settlement fails.

Judging by the chart that he posted, it looks ominous to me. Do you have any thoughts NWD?


http://www.piraz.com...y/interbank.jpg

Yes, I do.

We should all take common sense precautions against an interruption of function of this complicated infrastructure we've come to take as much for granted as air and sunlight.

This "Mr. Moto" item could be a sign of truly dangerous stress in the banking system or, for all I know (I don't pretend to be an expert in these matters) it might be nothing at all.

Better safe than sorry.

Edited to add:

"Mr. Moto" doesn't post often and when he does he adopts, it seems to me, a tone of bland understatement. Go with what he says, not the tone in which he says it.

Also, it seemed to me that, in this week's Credit Bubble Bulletin, Mr. Noland sort of hinted at something along the same lines.





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