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#286

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 05:30 AM

Here, take these documents, It's your responsibility now.


Sovereignty transferred to Iraq two days early:

Snip:

"Paul Bremer, handed over legal documents to Iraq's interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi who was flanked by the country's new President Sheikh Ghazi Al-Yawar, at around 10:30 am"

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#287

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 05:44 AM

All of these discussions centered on polarizing issues and parties are the problem, not the solution. There are a million shades of grey between black and white. The fact that all discourse is ultimately reduced to Liberal vs. Conservative - Republican vs. Democrat - Pro Choice Vs. Pro Life - Right to Bare Arms vs. Gun Control - Muslim Vs. Infidel... these are very simplistic ways for humans to divide themselves up and claim a sense of belonging to a group, a religion, a party, an ideology, etc.

If you're Pro-Bush, does this mean you came from a family that identified itself as conservative, or does it mean that you are pro War Crime? Not every Republican is good for the Republican cause. Nixon proved that.

Nothing in life is this simple, and no thinking human can claim that any one of the "tribes" mentioned above has all of the answers to all of the issues of the day.

I knew a woman who was on the Southern California Right To Life Commission...and was of course a bible thumping adamant Pro Lifer...until of course she became pregnant herself (Karma). She nearly chose to take her own life rather than have the child, and ultimately chose to have an abortion.

It's easy to stand on soap boxes and declare one's high minded and seemingly well-intentioned beliefs, yet quite another to have a reality thrust upon you that causes you to view the shades of grey between black and white, and come to a clearer understanding...that these groups that divide us into extreme tribes are the problem...not the solution.

By the way...while you slept, Paul Bremmer handed over control of Iraq in a hastily arranged ceremony - and immediately flew out of the country.

Watch for the MASSIVE CRIMINAL PUMPING of 990N through the day, everytime the boys try to Sell The News.

#288 stained jeans

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 05:46 AM

Sovereignty transferred to Iraq two days early

:lol: :lol: :lol:

That otter take them thar insurgents by surprise! Damn that Shrubber is clever... :unsure:

#289 trinharder

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 05:51 AM

So they handed over Iraq early to cover the actions of 990N? Timing is everything. Sorry, couldn't help myself. Who was it that said nothing that happens in government is accidental or coincidental, but by design?

#290 The brown one

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 05:57 AM

For better or for worse, the US has been largely footing the bill for NATO for decades, so it figures that European countries can spend more money on social programs

After living in Holland for many years, I am convinced that US citizens would refuse to pay the kind of taxes that they pay over there:

18% sales tax

the annual capital gains tax based on the theoretical earnings of your portfolio, whether or not you actually earned anything from your investments

the tax paid for owning your own home since you "save" on not having to spend money on rent

payroll taxes so high that when I cut my hours back 50%, I took home only 10% less than when I was working fulltime (to the amazement of my co-workers)


It's great that they have a real safety net for people there, but the malaise and the huge number of people who float along on disability for "psychological" reasons was astonishing.

Sass:

You're right about disability payments in Holland.Real abuse of what was intended to be beneficial.They are clamping down on it slowly but surely but my first encounter with thae system was about one year after I arrived in '78.

I met a British guy who had been here for 5 years.When I asked what he did for work,he said nothing and that you have to be crazy to work in Holland.He had worked for a couple of years in a poultry slaughterhouse until he discovered that back problems could entitle him to live off the state forever.

And that's what he was doing,the turd.Nothing wrong with him at all.Had a nice car and dressed expensively.Shoulda dobbed him in;after all it was my tax guilders he was living off.

Given the opportunity,there will always be people in society that abuse the system;simply a question of morality and ethics.Despite the taxes etc I prefer to live in a more egalitarian/libertarian society than one that is less so.

You pays your money and takes your choice.

#291 The brown one

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 06:01 AM

Sovereignty transferred to Iraq two days early

:lol: :lol: :lol:

That otter take them thar insurgents by surprise! Damn that Shrubber is clever... :unsure:

Get your chaos now at the pre-introduction special offer price :lol: :lol: :lol:

#292 traderfromhell

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 06:01 AM

So they handed over Iraq early to cover the actions of 990N? Timing is everything. Sorry, couldn't help myself. Who was it that said nothing that happens in government is accidental or coincidental, but by design?

FDR
Don't steal. The government hates competition.

#293 stained jeans

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 06:08 AM

All of these discussions centered on polarizing issues and parties are the problem, not the solution.  There are a million shades of grey between black and white.  The fact that all discourse is ultimately reduced to Liberal vs. Conservative - Republican vs. Democrat - Pro Choice Vs. Pro Life - Right to Bare Arms vs. Gun Control - Muslim Vs. Infidel... these are very simplistic ways for humans to divide themselves up and claim a sense of belonging to a group, a religion, a party, an ideology, etc.

Plunge,

I am philosophically in agreement with just about everything you post here. But here I must part ways. Big time.

This country is embarking on one of its every 4th generation bipolar periods that in past years has culminated in the War for Independence, the Civil War, and WWII. We are a good 20 years from resolution of the conflict that has just begun. The lines are being drawn and the battle will take on very black and white proportions the likes of which most of us cannot even begin to imagine today.

Based on my read of the cyclical nature of history, the bad guys will ultimately emerge the victors. In the meanwhile, I intend to do everything I can to thwart that bearish interpretation.

#294

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 06:16 AM

Uh...which bad guys?

#295 stained jeans

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 06:20 AM

Uh...which bad guys?

The imperialists. Those who seek world domination at the expense of everything that made this country the envy of the world...

#296

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 06:25 AM

I met a lady for drinks last night, who wanted to talk about the Iraq situation...and in the process, she wanted me to know that she was Jewish, so as to better understand her position regarding the war.

Part of her opinion was to defend the apparent War Crimes of our armed forces. I explained to her that war is actually governed by International laws, many of which were crafted by us as a direct result of the autrocities suffered by the Jews at the hands of the Nazis. She could not even fathom that the world could ever prosecute anyone from America for War Crimes, for any reason.

It wasn't all that long ago that we were ALL OVER supporting the Geneva Conventions in order to put Malosovich away for his war crimes in Serbia. Either their are rules for a civilized society to engage in war or there are not. It's pure hypocrisy to suggest these rules apply to everyone else but not to us. Ask John McCain how he feels about torture.

It's amazing how one's perspective can change when the formerly persecuted become the powerful.

#297

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 06:29 AM

Uh...which bad guys?

The imperialists. Those who seek world domination at the expense of everything that made this country the envy of the world...

Thanks for that clarification...I'm with you on that one.

I am increasignly convinced that everything that is happening is all about oil, and the truth of how low the world's reserves are relative to demand is what's behind all we see unfolding.

#298 stained jeans

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 06:32 AM

It's amazing how one's perspective can change when the formerly persecuted become the powerful.

It's almost surreal.

I'll never forget about the first time I read about the treatment of the Jews at the hands of the Nazis in the Encyclopedia Britannica. I nearly became physicaly ill. Now I experience almost the same sick feeling when I read about how Sharon treats the Palestinians...

#299 stained jeans

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 06:37 AM

I am increasignly convinced that everything that is happening is all about oil, and the truth of how low the world's reserves are relative to demand is what's behind all we see unfolding.

Follow the money. This is nothing new in history. It all comes down to basic survival instincts where ultimately the powerful prevail.

A "realist" simply accepts this -- as long as they are on the winning side of the "transaction"... I say "not in my name."

#300

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 07:03 AM

I am increasignly convinced that everything that is happening is all about oil, and the truth of how low the world's reserves are relative to demand is what's behind all we see unfolding.

Follow the money. This is nothing new in history. It all comes down to basic survival instincts where ultimately the powerful prevail.

A "realist" simply accepts this -- as long as they are on the winning side of the "transaction"... I say "not in my name."

I feel the same, though without electricity, our method of communication here would disappear.
Without air conditioning, much of the U.S. would become uninhabitable.
Without fertilizer, many would starve.

Interesting dillema.

At some point, the maniacs may conclude that the only way to control the oil in the Middle east is to nuk the place and then send in oil workers wearing space suits to get the oil flowing.

I heard an anal cyst state prior to the war that the only way to gain control of Iraq is to nuk it until the rubble bounces. If control is the name of the game and urban warfare is proven not to work...desparate measure may be resulted to. There is a REPUBLICAN SPONSORED bill being pushed through the halls of Congress right now to fund the research of "tactical nukes...which are more likely to be used in a strategic way."

This is where it's heading.





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