Astro:The 72 year cycle

[chasmo]

Upon reading last night on mark2mark that I, Hood winked and Phat bubble had been missed I was both flattered and felt a little gulity as I still have a view point but is harder to get it out without Hood and Phat to jump in with commentary.

The following link http://stariq.com/main/articles/p0005316.htm

Iam sure Hoodwinked would have put up if he were around and it is germaine as this 72 and 36 year cyle shows up in a lot of different ways.

Our economy for instance was seriously in the tank in the around 1786-88 1857-58 and 1930-32.

Then there is the poltical reorientation that occurs every 36 years,1788, 1824, 1860, 1896, 1932,1968, and 2004!Check that one out if as we should see a reversal of drift to the right that has been occuring since Nixon was elected in 1968.

And then there is the "great president" cycle of 72years, ie Washingon 1788 Lincoln 1860 and Roosevelt in 1932.This cycle of presidents is also in sync with the great secular crisis that seem to occur about every 72years with the nexxxt oone due in 2004!

My take on this is that as indicated by astro considerations and by the Mayan calendar this country and the world will hit bottom about 2012 and we are entering a secualr crisis that will last at least eight years and as the astro in my mind clarly indicates that kerry will win next fall and in 2008 his leadership during this crisis is what makes him the next great president keping alive tthe 72 year cycle regarding "great presidents"

But the economy is waht this article is all about it indicates we are on the cups of great change and movement in the geo political sphere and I suspect the economy as well.

It has been a puzzel to me that the Pluto aspecdt to the mars Neptune square in the US chart has not resulted in the kind of loss of illusions in the economic sphere that is occuring currently in the poltical sphere.Now mars is strongly aspecting Pluto and the US mars late this week and we had a new moon right on the cusp of the US 5th house in the Sibly chart which should mean fear is about to return to the speculative markets.But to this point the trouble indicated by pluto with the US Mars Neptune square has shown a slow but steady dissolving of illusions that the current administration knows best, and that American military power can be projected with impunity into the middle east.

But whence cometh the unraveling of the debt markets? According to theory it should also be occring as this also is based on illusion which ought to be unraveling just as this things are unraveling in the political sphere.

Gover could be right ,a better time for this to happen is late this summer when Saturn is with the US Mercury opposite Pluto and Mars and Jupiter are both hitting the Pluto Mars Neptune aspects in the US chart.This would fit pretty well with the indications of dislocation indicated by the Mayan astrology.

China seesm to be in sync with us and they too should be affected by the Mayan calandar.Some indication of bad things coming down would be inflation in their economy which causes more inflation here thus disturbing the bond markets with perhaps everyone trying to desert the ship at the same time.Its going to happen at some point and one would think this summer astro wise is as good a time as any.

Phatbubble....... good to see you posting.Did you post article about current mars Pluto opposition? I have not found it but see references to your making an astro post.

[phatbubble]

chasmo, i'm here. no, didn't post on the mars-pluto aspect - i recapped the saturn conjunct USA sun that's exact on 10 jun 04. last time was 8 aug 74; nixon resigned and the market began a 2-month 30% slide.

 

i don't have an opinion on whether bush will be leaving office on that date, but as the figurehead, the symbolic ego identity of the USA, if he doesn't continue to get into increasingly deep shit as that date approaches, i'll be more than a little surprised. btw, his 2nd saturn return is a month before the election. talk about chickens coming home to roost.

 

i can't comment with any horsepower right now on the 36/72 year cycles, but one thing that comes to mind re the mayan/2012 thing is the uranus cycle of 84ish years - every 42 when it makes a T square with the USA sun & saturn, we get deep in the weeds economically. this isn't in play now, but next decade it is. might've been merriman who mentioned this recently.

 

good to see you back.

[chasmo]

Phat ,

Come to think of it that last three presidents who were in office when Saturn came over the US sun were not able to finish their terms.Wilson had a stroke,Roosevelt ,cancer and Nixon, forced to resign.Saturn with the US Sun defnetly not good for who ever happens to be president.

The Uranus square to Pluto coming up around 2008 I believe is indicative of where our current monetary policies bring about an end of the financial system as we know it.This square belive it or not lasts almost ten years and before it is over me thinks a few maybe a whole lot of Plutocrats will have bitten the dust.

As for Bush presidents dont get elected or relected with Saturn returns or with Saturn desceding towards the first house. All of this is happeing with Bush in the next eight months.

Also, Progressed Pluto and progressed nodal axis conjoined at 27 Capricorn later this summer.NY stock exchange chart for 1792 has Saturn at 27 Aries and neptune at 27 Libra.In September Saturn makes its station at 27 Cancer exactly conjunct the Geroge Bush Saturn.What does this say.Trouble for the US financial markets trouble for Bush,and trouble for those of us who would like to see a little less of "Pluto"ie goverment by decree coming out of Washington.

People are saying that the worst that can happen to Bush has alredy happened.I dont think so. A lot more is going to be coming down before the election this fall.

[chasmo]

Should add here that the progressed Pluto progressed nodal axis occur in the US chart and in the house of the peoples wealth (the second) if you use the Sibly US chart.One would think on the basis of this a lot of whole sale destruction of personal wealth occuring by this September.This is probably a reaction to Saturn in the eigth house in the US Sibly chart indicating a contraction of market values of both stocks and bonds.

[Drano]

...a lot of whole sale destruction of personal wealth occuring by this September.This is probably a reaction to Saturn in the eigth house in the US Sibly chart indicating a contraction of market values of both stocks and bonds.

Does this apply to real estate values too, as most people have most of their wealth tied up there? Or is it specific to financial markets?

 

Basic stupid question: when does Mercury go direct again?

 

TIA -- and thanx to all Astros for your interesting postings.

 

quote from the Gover link Chasmo posted earlier:

 

"The 72-year cycle is of Mayan astrological origin and last clocked on July 8, 1932 when stock prices hit their bottom during the great depression of the 1930s. Going back from that point 72 years marked the 1858 pit of the Crash of 1857. Going forward brings us to July 8, 2004?plus or minus 118 days"

 

This guy sounds like a total Stoolie when you read the article.

[ShitEatingGrinner]

thank you, guys. glad to see you back. as has been mentioned, a couple of you guys' calls have been astounding. keep posting, I, for one, will keep reading.

[threadbare]

Great to hear from you again, Chasmo, Phat. Chasmo, I think it was you who mentioned inflation in China. Do you have any thoughts about the genesis of this? Will it originate from increasing prices of commodities and oil, wage inflation, monetary policy?

 

According to experts the results of peak oil will be very manifest around 2010. What we're seeing now is the political-economic jockeying for position around the inevitable end to cheap oil. This dovetails quite remarkably with the year 2012 Mayan calender prophecy.

[phatbubble]

...a lot of whole sale destruction of personal wealth occuring by this September.This is probably a reaction to Saturn in the eigth house in the US Sibly chart indicating a contraction of market values of both stocks and bonds.

Does this apply to real estate values too, as most people have most of their wealth tied up there? Or is it specific to financial markets?

 

Basic stupid question: when does Mercury go direct again?

 

TIA -- and thanx to all Astros for your interesting postings.

 

quote from the Gover link Chasmo posted earlier:

 

"The 72-year cycle is of Mayan astrological origin and last clocked on July 8, 1932 when stock prices hit their bottom during the great depression of the 1930s. Going back from that point 72 years marked the 1858 pit of the Crash of 1857. Going forward brings us to July 8, 2004?plus or minus 118 days"

 

This guy sounds like a total Stoolie when you read the article.

i'd say real estate too. generally speaking the 8th house involves anything that's a jointly-held asset.

 

frankly i expected the wheels to come off the housing market sooner - specifically, last june, when saturn went into cancer (right when uncle freddie started to fall apart and may have gotten a silent bailout). you can't dodge the consequences associated with saturn transits, but sometimes you can hide them for a while.

 

mercury goes direct this friday, 30 april.

[Drano]

mercury goes direct this friday, 30 april.

Thank God.

 

And thanks, Phat, too, unless that's redundant

 

Funny about the Saturn transit in Cancer -- I've had so many more problems recently with my house than usual -- and sort of long-term hidden problems that just surfaced.

 

Not to mention the usual Mercury communication problems.

 

Of course, my coming back to the board may be a communication problem for all of you. :shocked

 

Seriously, was it Phat who commented on all the lapsed Stoolies showing up again? I really do think it means something, but you should remember that I'm always wrong and am a contrarian indicator.

[chasmo]

Thread bare, Iam no china expert but when I hear even China is thinking of floating the yaun or raiseing interest rates to control inflation I assume they are concerned about inflation.In boom situations that is what you usually get.

Iam firmly in the camp that we are in a twenty year cycle of riseing interest rates associated with the Saturn Pluto cycle reaching its wanning stage.I think rates are artificially low right now and at some point there is going to be an explosion upward as the credit markets factor in the fact that derviatives do not constitute a hedge against their assumption that leveraged carry trade positions are the place to be. But alas I cant tell when this is going to occur thus my speculations about what might happen later this summer.

Saturn in Cancer in regards to real estate is probabably still in play.

The key here is Saturn reaching the opposition to Pluto in the US chart as Pluto is the ruler of the debt markets and it falls in the house of bonds and stocks,(the eigth) in the US chart.

In the past when Saturn has reached this position there have been some major market melt downs as has been pointed out by Gover though they were usually accompained by an outer planet in Aries or libra Also square the US Pluto.We dont have the outer planet later this summer but we do have Saturn making its station exactly Opposite progressed Pluto and in conjunction with the Progressed Nodal axis in the US chart.Now this is also the position of the GWB natal Saturn so something is coming down here in the political arena and though Iam sure this will be a negative for the financial markets Iam still not sure this means a bond market melt down.

Regardless...... reflation is dead given the stage we are in the Saturn Pluto cycle Debt deflation is the long term trend.Like many I think Iam impatient but the trend is the key here with reflation more or less behind us we have a real key that Reits Bonds, Stocks are haeded south in the months and years ahead.

[chasmo]

I see my typos are again out of control....will try to proof read better in the future.

[chasmo]

Alas.... still another correction.Saturns position in the US Sibly chart falls in the 8th the house of stocks and bonds. Pluto falls in the second as already mentioned the house of personal wealth.Pluto associated with extremes, either Plutocracy or as is sometimes the case when Saturn aspects Pluto, the destruction of Plutocracy.The lattter expected to be the case come this fall.

[Guest]

... or as is sometimes the case when Saturn aspects Pluto, the destruction of Plutocracy.The lattter expected to be the case come this fall.

Now there's an encouraging thought, something that would be nice to see.

[Hoodwinked]

Hi gang.

 

Good stuff Chasmo.

 

As of late I have been doing hardcore ACG map work.....not for the faint of heart.

 

I went underground for a bit after the Future/Maps bullstool that hit the fan......gotta luv them government boys.....they'll use anyone's work....roflmao. Hey! Where's my royalties!!

 

I have been working the charts and maps using composites for Bush2, the U.S.A. and the "Founding of Islam." The founding of Islam chart may prove to be the key. {I believe it is}

 

After reviewing work from a couple of years ago, it has shown to be uncomfortably accurate.

 

You don't make many friends with some of the things I have written. Most of my work is being posted on European sites and a couple of places that deal mostly with the expectations of future events.

 

FWIW.....the August 6th Jupiter square Pluto is pointing to conflagration in the M.E + - 3 days of the aspect.

 

One of my European counterparts has it in September.... A few weeks makes no difference as we both have the same outcome.

 

I will edit my write-up for the April 2004 New Moon that just passed and post it in this thread.......The opening of Pandora's box.

 

As always.....It is what it is.

 

Watch Sistani....he is the one....not El Sadar

 

Peace

Hood

[Hoodwinked]

The Beast in the East

 

Many of you have seen the work pertaining to the Jupiter square Pluto transit that approaches in August. It is not just that this transit is powerful in own right, when combined with the chart for the founding of Islam it is downright scary. When we combine the three charts for the USA, Islam and the transit it becomes explosive.

 

This past week the President of the United States incited an escalation to hostile conditions during the visit of Ariel Sharon. We all know the expression "some things are better left unsaid." Sooner or later the current administration should understand that throwing gasoline on an already raging fire is not such a good idea.

 

The mood among the Islamic counties has take a hard turn for the worse. Almost all M.E. nation leaders, that were trying to maintain any sense of equilibrium in the region, are now being backed up against the ropes by their citizens. The assassinations combined with statements made can only lead to one outcome. An entire region was backed into a corner.

 

I am not saying who is right and who is wrong, that is not the point. Keep reading and you will see the point.

 

Another old saying goes "Timing is everything." The timing for George Bush's statements, could not have been worse. I almost fell out of my chair when I heard him speak.

 

The people of the M.E. already believe that they are under assault by a "Crusade from the West." They do not take it lightly, and well remember the history lessons of their teachers concerning past invasions of their territories.

 

Recent history has seen the Middle Eastern lands being occupied by an English speaking people on more than one occasion. As a point of history, some of the major conflicts in the M.E. were started by an unnatural commingling of tribes and people. The British Mandate created boarders with absolutely no thought of natural tribal boundaries. It was indeed the lines of the British Mandate that have created so much turmoil in the region.

 

The cultures of the West, M.E. India, and the Far East are vastly different. We are not wired the same, we do not think the same! It is what it is. Centuries of tradition and culture cannot be displaces by nations wielding superior force. Occupying forces have never succeeded in maintaining dominance in region, but through genocide. Mass slaughter of populations and the use of terror by occupying forces gave control for a time, but in history, never indefinitely.

 

The Native Americans are a prime example. The Native Americans not willing to give up their land and traditional ways, became a problem for the founding fathers of the USA. The leaders of the new nation embarked on a path that was considered "divine providence."

 

The native Americans were vastly outnumbered. These differing groups within the whole, for the most part stuck to their own place and tribal traditions. You had the occasional wars among tribes , followed by the retreat of each to his own land. Usually these wars were fought over food sources....your basic resources. Tribes have a completely differing mindset than nations.

 

You can study the history of tribal peoples through the ages and find that "remaining separate" is what worked best within their cultures.

The nature of tribal cultures is what made it so easy for expansionist nations to move in and dominate the native people. There was no cohesion.

 

You see where I'm going with this don't you?

 

The primitive tribal cultures of the Americas, Africa, et al never stood a chance against these expansionist nations. Conforming to the invaders, was the only way for the tribes to escape genocide. Tribes being forced to live together gave the appearance of acceptance to the new ways.

 

 

As we have seen in the Balkans, Rawanda and other regions of the world, when the tribes are once again left to their own understanding and ways, its only a matter of time before the tribes revert to their own cultural roots.

 

Iraq remained intact due to the strong arm tactics of Saddam Hussein. He took an unnatural blending of tribes and forced control. He had an advantage over Western forces.....he understood the nuances of the differing tribes and sects.

 

The Middle East has seen two of its major countries under the rule of imposed dictators. Both Iran and Iraq were kept under control by the U.S. backed Shah of Iran and Saddam Hussein. The U.S. supplied the two dictators with all the tools needed for an effective dictatorship. The two dictators were able to maintained control through the assassinations of tribal and religious leaders. The people relied on these assassinated tribal and religious leaders to maintain their ancient cultural identity.

 

Once again as history has shown, once these leaders were removed, the people blended within the new regimes to prevent the complete destruction of their tribes and religious sects. It was usually during the early part of these imposed dictatorships that you would see the most of violence.This violence was to root out any and all opposition quickly.

 

These dictators were the glue that held the region together in its unnatural state of tribal division. at the time this all played out to the west's advantage. Rather than go down the road of oil politics its important at this time to remain focused of the tribes and the religious sects. They will ultimately be the USA's undoing.

 

Remember the lesson of Iran and remember it well. Soon after the Shah was dethroned, there was a rapid advancement of establishing power bases within the tribes. Khomeini had been working in the shadows planning the overthrow and organizing.

 

The only thing that prevented the expanding of Khomeini's rebirth to old customs in Iraq, was Hussein. The move was made and 8 year war began between Iran and Iraq.

 

Khomeini's legacy remains and is the driving force behind radical Islamic fundamentalism. This fundamentalism has been seething just below the surface in many M.E. countries.

 

The Saudi's are in big trouble and know it. Mubarack is in big trouble and knows it. The King of Jordan had to cancel his meeting with Bush. He had no choice.

 

In one of my recent writing I called this April 19 th moon "The opening of Pandora's box." At the time I had no idea what it was. Now there is no question.

 

This is not about who's side anyone is on concerning Israel or the Islamic nations. When George Bush spoke.....all of Islam took it as a declaration of war. Leaders friendly to the U.S. are now loosing their grip on their citizens.

 

I wrote three years ago that if we invaded Iraq it would be our Achilles heal. "Step into my parlor said the spider to the fly." We can now anticipate Sistani' s followers to begin forming guerilla units to attack the U.S.supply lines leading to the South. We can now anticipate Iranian's traveling on their pilgrimage to Iraq to begin smuggling weapons to the guerillas.

 

If we see the Kurds make their move for independence in the North.....its game over for the entire region. Look at the odds for the U.S. troops.....120,000 to how many million? Start praying....its time.

 

Turkey, Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan....are all seething. If the U.S. does not begin a rapid pullout by June 30th, they will become embroiled in a war leading to the August 6th conflagration.

 

Pandora's box was opened.

 

The ACG maps confirm

 

Peace

Hoodwinked