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#31 fxfox

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 05:58 PM

Wasn't that Ross Perot?

no, his name was Rotten Parrot.
'patriot' is formed with 'patria' and 'idiot'

#32 The End

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 05:58 PM

tpark,

It is in the interest of the world that the US doo-lar remain high. That does not mean that it will happen. I see no way out unless we deflate the $ (for the U.S.) (debt is just too high) (or maybe I am)
NONE of what I type, should be taken as financial advice.

And when you loose control, you'll reap the harvest that you've sown
And as the fear grows, the bad blood slows and turns to stone
And it's too late to loose the weight you used to need to throw around
So have a good drown, as you go down, alone
Dragged down by the stone.


--Waters

#33 HiHat

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 05:59 PM

11 Billion dollars is a lot of money for a "food company" to
displace.........................................................................

The Parmalot fiasco seems to be downplayed......oddly beings
how absurd the...can't find money..story that it is.

I believe that this is kept low key right now is to give spin creation
time to BIG Banks........who are behind multiple face-ripping off
episodes ala Parmalot...........VIA Derivative Playing................

THAT went horribly awry..........................................................

#34 Guest_libertas_*

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:00 PM

J&P has to struggle while Richie Rich can buy buy buy what he wants and becasue there are enough Richie Richs a Cayenne can become a sucess story.

The problem is you don't need to be Richie Rich to buy a Cayenne. J6P can buy one - that's why they are selling well, lots of cheap credit. Did I say selling? I meant leasing... Give me the right residual, I can make anything cheap to lease.

#35 An Ant

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:00 PM

MU up 5% AH

#36 mjkst27

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:01 PM

yeah gimme that V12 bi-turbo 8 liter engine! :lol:

btw, i never thought that the Porsche Cayenne would be such a huge sucess. It is the best year in Porsches history and mostly becasue of the Cayenne. That thing sells very good in the US, but also Germany.
Now i ask: IF the economy is totally phcucked up, IF oil price is high and and and WHY is such a car such a huge sucess? I told everyone who wanted to hear it, that the Cayenne will be the worst decision Porsches has ever made and that it will bring down the whole firm. I thought Porsche could even go bankrupt. I was 100% wrong. I think many stoolies though the same. Do WE get something wrong? I mean let us look back to the 70s, becaseu if we say we are in 70s bnear marekt than it should be worthwhile to compare. in Thge 70s those car comapnies started to built smaller engines to reduce gas consumption. So there was a direct result of bad economy: Cars became smaller. In those times where we are right now i havent seen such a result, although it should have occured so far IF we are really all doomed.

Another arguemtn which is maybe the striking one: The gap between rich/super rich and middle class gets bigger and bigger. J&P has to struggle while Richie Rich can buy buy buy what he wants and becasue there are enough Richie Richs a Cayenne can become a sucess story.

3 simple words: asset...backed...securities

#37 Guest_libertas_*

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:02 PM

11 Billion dollars is a lot of money for a "food company" to
displace.........................................................................

The Parmalot fiasco seems to be downplayed......oddly beings
how absurd the...can't find money..story that it is.

I believe that this is kept low key right now is to give spin creation
time to BIG Banks........who are behind multiple face-ripping off
episodes ala Parmalot...........VIA Derivative Playing................

THAT went horribly awry..........................................................

Yes. Amazing lack of reaction to a default, seems to be between $6 and $12 billion, looks like nobody knows exactly how big it is. Marketwatch sez "This is no Enron" excuuuuze me?

#38

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:03 PM

Why do you wanna know? Huh? Huh?

Vy do you theeeeenk my leeettle Lieeeeepsian! B)

#39 FeedFool

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:04 PM

yeah gimme that V12 bi-turbo 8 liter engine! :lol:

btw, i never thought that the Porsche Cayenne would be such a huge sucess. It is the best year in Porsches history and mostly becasue of the Cayenne. That thing sells very good in the US, but also Germany.
Now i ask: IF the economy is totally phcucked up, IF oil price is high and and and WHY is such a car such a huge sucess? I told everyone who wanted to hear it, that the Cayenne will be the worst decision Porsches has ever made and that it will bring down the whole firm. I thought Porsche could even go bankrupt. I was 100% wrong. I think many stoolies though the same. Do WE get something wrong? I mean let us look back to the 70s, becaseu if we say we are in 70s bnear marekt than it should be worthwhile to compare. in Thge 70s those car comapnies started to built smaller engines to reduce gas consumption. So there was a direct result of bad economy: Cars became smaller. In those times where we are right now i havent seen such a result, although it should have occured so far IF we are really all doomed.

Another arguemtn which is maybe the striking one: The gap between rich/super rich and middle class gets bigger and bigger. J&P has to struggle while Richie Rich can buy buy buy what he wants and becasue there are enough Richie Richs a Cayenne can become a sucess story.

Oil is still cheap and commodities bull market has not began so downsizing will come at a latter stage and bears are little early with their doom and gloom scenarios. We would be able to compare this decade with the seventies not like the thirties.

#40 machinehead

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:07 PM

I mean let us look back to the 70s, becaseu if we say we are in 70s bnear marekt than it should be worthwhile to compare. in Thge 70s those car comapnies started to built smaller engines to reduce gas consumption. So there was a direct result of bad economy: Cars became smaller.

Not just the bad economy, but also higher gasoline prices (Oil Shock I). American cars were LARGE in 1974. Compacts existed, but with very downscale image and features, and shaky quality (e.g. Chevy Vega, Ford Pinto, Maverick, etc.) European and Japanese makers had QUALITY small cars with good fuel economy, which gained market share after the oil shock.

The REAL (inflation-adjusted) price of oil is still cheap. Oil prices will have to exceed $40 / bbl before people even start to wake up, and $80 / bbl to have the same impact as Oil Shock II.

Middle East oil producers buy a lot of consumer goods from Europe. The price of those goods is soaring, in dollar terms. If I were them, I would have NO qualms about demanding drastically higher oil prices, while blaming it all on America's reckless dollar depreciation.
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#41 Hypertiger

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:08 PM

yeah gimme that V12 bi-turbo 8 liter engine! :lol:

btw, i never thought that the Porsche Cayenne would be such a huge sucess. It is the best year in Porsches history and mostly becasue of the Cayenne. That thing sells very good in the US, but also Germany.
Now i ask: IF the economy is totally phcucked up, IF oil price is high and and and WHY is such a car such a huge sucess? I told everyone who wanted to hear it, that the Cayenne will be the worst decision Porsches has ever made and that it will bring down the whole firm. I thought Porsche could even go bankrupt. I was 100% wrong. I think many stoolies though the same. Do WE get something wrong? I mean let us look back to the 70s, becaseu if we say we are in 70s bnear marekt than it should be worthwhile to compare. in Thge 70s those car comapnies started to built smaller engines to reduce gas consumption. So there was a direct result of bad economy: Cars became smaller. In those times where we are right now i havent seen such a result, although it should have occured so far IF we are really all doomed.

Another arguemtn which is maybe the striking one: The gap between rich/super rich and middle class gets bigger and bigger. J&P has to struggle while Richie Rich can buy buy buy what he wants and becasue there are enough Richie Richs a Cayenne can become a sucess story.

The top sucks from the bottom...so rich people are doing good right now...as long as they can canibalize the bottom their profits will be great...Eventually they will wipe out everyone...then the top will canibalize itself...
"We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money (at the request of the consumer) we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system.... It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon." --Robert H. Hemphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank,1938...

#42 EasyAl

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:10 PM

The two-year note had its biggest decline this month. Some 30 percent of the bids were accepted from indirect bidders, which bid through primary dealers, down from 33 percent in November, and 45 percent in October. About 69 percent of bids were accepted from the 22 primary U.S. government securities dealers that trade with the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

Foreign ``participation is very important -- it's something we're definitely keeping our eyes on,'' said Thomas Hagstrom, head of fixed-income trading at State Street Research & Management in Boston, which oversees $46.1 billion. Without it, ``the market would probably trade much more in line with the economic data, which is surprising to the upside.'' Such a scenario would argue for higher yields, Hagstrom said.


Foreigners are less interested in bidding US treasuries

#43 The End

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:13 PM

MH,

They could also demand payment in other currencies. What would that do?
NONE of what I type, should be taken as financial advice.

And when you loose control, you'll reap the harvest that you've sown
And as the fear grows, the bad blood slows and turns to stone
And it's too late to loose the weight you used to need to throw around
So have a good drown, as you go down, alone
Dragged down by the stone.


--Waters

#44 EasyAl

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:18 PM

If oil producing nations demand payment in euro, for instance, the short term effect is probably psychological as dollar can be freely converted into euro. This, of course, assumes that the demand of euro for oil is an isolated event. However, if many goods are internationally traded in currencies other than dollar and people start to realize that dollar is losing its status as reserve currency, it would be entirely different thing

#45 Charliss

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 06:20 PM

What kind of Lebkuchen? :)

Brush with lemon glaze while still warm. Garnish with additional candied fruits and peels, sprinkle with finely grated butterkase. On serving plate, arrange cookies around and on top of mouse trap.





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