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#301 Hypertiger

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 01:38 AM

All that is needed is an excuse of some sort to adopt "unconventional" economic measures - the printing up of greenbacks (out of nothing) by the Treasury, rather than FRNs created from debt by the Fed. Simple.

Also, IMVHO anyone on this site who has not read both "The Prize" and "Tragedy and Hope" or something similar to them has no business pontificating about oil, world politics or international banking conspiracies.

I'm the TRAGEDY and DBS is the HOPE...

If DBS were to believe anything I say then it would be a tragedy...

resistance to slavery is the tragedy capitulation is the Hope

The truth is the tragedy and lies are the hope

saving for a rainy day is the tragedy borrowing and spending like a drunken sailor is the hope...

"There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an institutional Anglophile network which operates, to some extent, in the way the radical Right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other groups, and frequently does so. I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years in the early 1960s to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments. I have objected, both in the past and recently, to a few of its policies... but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known." Dr. Carroll Quigley

pages 979-980. He says, in effect, that it is now too late for the little people to turn back the tide. In a spirit of kindness he is therefore urging them not to fight the noose which is already around their necks. He feels certain that those who do will only choke themselves to death. On tile other hand, those who go along with the immense pressure which is beginning to be felt by all humanity will eventually find themselves in a man-made millennium of peace and prosperity. All through his book. Dr. Quigley assures us that we can trust these benevolent, well-meaning men who are secretly operating behind the scenes. THEY are tile hope of the world. All who resist them represent tragedy.

It is not hard to understand why President Clinton gave tribute to Carroll Quigley in his nomination speech at the Democratic Party Convention. Quigley graduated magna cum laude with MA and Ph.D. degrees from Harvard. He was even in Ripley's Believe It or Not for being Harvard's youngest person to receive a Ph.D. After teaching at Harvard and Princeton he went to Georgetown where for 28 consecutive years alumni selected him as their most influential professor. Dean of The School of Foreign Service, Dr. Peter F. Krough aptly states, 'He was one of the last of the great macro-historians who traced the development of civilization...with awesome capability.' With his teachings, Clinton and other aspirants have aligned themselves in positions of influence. As Quigley espoused, 'Look at the real situations which lie beneath the conceptual and verbal symbols.'

An introduction to President Clinton's Political Mentor Carroll Quigley in his nomination speech at the Democratic Party Convention

"As of his death in 1977 Dr. Carroll Quigley is no longer with us, yet Tragedy and Hope is a hallmark of history, a classic to be owned by those who care to know of the forces that have shaped and are shaping history."

Carroll Quigley's Tragedy and Hope: A History Of The World In Our Time.

To bad Dr. Q is dead he was so close to the finish line
"We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money (at the request of the consumer) we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system.... It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon." --Robert H. Hemphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank,1938...

#302 TheDeepBlueSea

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 01:42 AM

Deep Blue - here's a thought for you....in economics theory, it is held, if I am not mistaken, that the greater the propensity to save, the lower will interest rates be, as all that rentable (rentabulous? you look mahvelous) "capital" fistfights with each other for the right to be put to work in some investment/project somewhere or something.

Sort of like sperms crawling over each other trying to get to the egg

ANYWAY

the point is, if this old economic saw is TRUE, then how the hell do we have rock bottom interest rates and nobody saves a flipping dime?

ANSWER

because the fractional reserve banking/economic system completely and totally distorts the whole idea that one man's savings is another's capital if the two can agree on an interest rate and terms.

The system doesn't NEED anybody to save a gaddamn thing

The system needs everyone to go out and borrow to the MAX (entre Hyper-tigre meow!)

THEREFORE, what the world needs is frigging COLLATERAL, not SAVINGS

someone hurry up and build a few million more mcmansions woodja?

Sorry, don't follow your line of arguement.

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#303 TheDeepBlueSea

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 01:54 AM

I tend suspect all panaceas including the gold standard.

My understanding is that the money supply should grow at about the same rate as the real economy.

What happens if the economy of a country is growing faster than the ability to mine and refine gold to back up the new currency that needs to be printed. A gold shortage?

Before someone jumps to the dialetic conclusion that I support the current system of fiat currency and central banking, I'll save them the trouble and state that I don't.

#304 Pee Brain

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 02:04 AM

As a Consumer do you have the ability to consume an infinite amount of debt?


i dont know, let me check with China? :lol:
Iat least we're all safe for now. thank God we're in a bowling alley.

#305 sheet4brain

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 02:08 AM

I got just the appropriate avatar for HRFF's CONsideration. It also reminds the BARE to be succinctly BRIEF in his posts.

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#306 TheDeepBlueSea

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 02:15 AM

Fractional reserve banking is what it's name implies.

A bank takes in deposits and can loan out part of those deposits with the goal of making a profit.
The remaining part is held in reserve.
8% in reserve for banks that operate internationally as set out by the BIS.

Problems arise when collateral such as stocks and land are treated as deposits.
Or other assets which are "securitized" and counted as bank reserves.
Especially when they are pyramided. If this type of leverage is allowed to grow unchecked, then historically such periods of speculation have ended badly.

However, it's hard to imagine another system, wherein the banks were obligated to hold 100% of their deposits. I'd be interested in hearing how such a system would work. I do recall reading such a proposal along these lines by Friedberg at www.friedberg.com (a group of traders with an Austrian view of the world) but I can't remember the details.

Central banking is another issue. One of the few truisms of economics is that one can't in an efficient market simultaneously set the price and amount of something. Yet the Fed attempts to do both. Set the price of money (interest rate) and the quantity (liquidity injection and drains). Why should the FOMC be able to do a better job of controlling the money than the Central Planning Comittee of the former "Supreme" Soviet. The fact is that they can't. In my view, central banks should be abolished, and the price of money should be decided by the market by open auction.

Then there's the new factors in the creation of liquidity: the GSE's.
But my post is in danger of becoming Hyper-long.

#307 Jimi

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 02:16 AM

BARE, it wasn't Lenin, but instead Khruschev who invoked the historic "dustbin."

TE, tremendous variation on Texas Radio!

TBS (immediately above), ask Triffin.

Hyper, Ferdy-bee-bee-dee-ferbs necessitates justa mattah o' time.

Stay groovy,

Jimi
Sure glad all my albums went GOLD.
"Ferdy-bee-bee-dee-ferbs."
Subscribe & Earn Karma Miles with Every Visit!
Rule #5 Professional Exemption.
Blind Follower, Just Think Positive Hyperinflation, I Get Paid 500 Quadrillion Dollars/Hour at 1000% Interest/Hour Compounding Forever Each Mouse Click Religion.
"I too observe 'flation.'"
I love you, TASR!
YOU MAKE KITTY SCARED
Tops Take Time
Postulate A Free Lunch Economy
Anyone, now, who is not genuinely afraid is a moran.
[T]housands of empty stucco crapboxes vacated after being circle-jerk sham-traded among corrupt borkers, uppraisers and loan officers from 100K up to 800K, then "nopay-walkaway" (with dirty loan cash in pockets)
Guess again, girlfriend.
Or, $2.7 million every effing day since the effing pinball machine.
Permabear Hysterian

#308 Goldmember

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 02:22 AM

Mark's riverboater list. Had a look.

....interesting. :P


these are my guesses with each after a quick glance at some charts. Some really hot dong picks and some FABULOUS shorts in the bunch, quite a mix.

SINA- 30,31,32.25
SOHU- 44
NTES- down to 37.95, then up to 41.75
CHINA- 14-16
ASIA-pullback to 10.25-10.50, then up to 12-12.25
IIJI- a true riverboater's dream come true! Way more upside..9-14.50
ATS-pullback, then from 3.10-4.40

SLNK-total psycho bitch...no idea....18.50 max
UTSI- 42-43
PLT- SHORT THE LIVING CRAP OUT OF IT!!!
JCOM-a touch at 50, pullback to 47, then scream to 56, eventually [8 or 13 day cycle]

AVID-SHORT!
EWBC-SHORT-38
AEOS-SHORT
PLNR-SHORT FOR 2 BUCK CHUCK!
ESI-EXPLOSIVE SHORT, after a fake-out up to 37...coming very fast..the explosive part
MRGE-....no idea.

many of these were viewed with 15 minute to 90 minute charts, so not necessarily tomorrow, though ESI looks like a fast explosion, somewhere, I suspect short. Best dong looks like IIJI.

...an eclectic mix....something for everyone. B)


do your own dd....
Anthony caused pearls to be dissolved in wine to drink the health of Cleopatra; Sir Richard Whittington was as foolishly magnificent in an entertainment to King Henry V; and Sir Thomas Gresham drank a diamond, dissolved in wine, to the health of Queen Elizabeth, when she opened the Royal Exchange; but the breakfast of this roguish Dutchman was as splendid as either. He had an advantage, too, over his wasteful predecessors: their gems did not improve the taste or the wholesomeness of their wine, while his tulip was quite delicious with his red herring.here

#309 longOnUranus

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 03:33 AM

LOU,

you've mellowing and moving toward understatement as you age :lol:

I haven't quite figured out how, on the Internet, one puts his tongue in his cheek and tries to sound intelligent at the same time.

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#310 Hypertiger

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 03:49 AM

Fractional reserve banking is what it's name implies.

A bank takes in deposits and can loan out part of those deposits with the goal of making a profit.
The remaining part is held in reserve.
8% in reserve for banks that operate internationally as set out by the BIS.

Problems arise when collateral such as stocks and land are treated as deposits.
Or other assets which are "securitized" and counted as bank reserves.
Especially when they are pyramided. If this type of leverage is allowed to grow unchecked, then historically such periods of speculation have ended badly.

However, it's hard to imagine another system, wherein the banks were obligated to hold 100% of their deposits. I'd be interested in hearing how such a system would work. I do recall reading such a proposal along these lines by Friedberg at www.friedberg.com (a group of traders with an Austrian view of the world) but I can't remember the details.

Central banking is another issue. One of the few truisms of economics is that one can't in an efficient market simultaneously set the price and amount of something. Yet the Fed attempts to do both. Set the price of money (interest rate) and the quantity (liquidity injection and drains). Why should the FOMC be able to do a better job of controlling the money than the Central Planning Comittee of the former "Supreme" Soviet. The fact is that they can't. In my view, central banks should be abolished, and the price of money should be decided by the market by open auction.

Then there's the new factors in the creation of liquidity: the GSE's.
But my post is in danger of becoming Hyper-long.

At an 8% reserve requirement on a deposit of $100 means that the bank can lend out "create out of thin air" close to $1,300 at lets say prime of 4.25%

So the bank pays you if you keep your account balance at $100 for a year around 1% or $1 after a year while they earn $55 off of prime interest on $1300

The flow of funds in demand accounts is good enough the banks do the accounting and they know how much their deposits fluctuate day to day...

I deposited $30,000 once and then 2 days later tried to withdraw $6,000 cash, they could only give me $3,000 and when I asked why they said "We don't have enough cash, next time phone ahead..."

Sad... Hypertiger almost broke the bank...If I wold have protested they could close the account or call the police... And they are the ones commiting fraud.

Right now the reserve requirement for US banks is 3% which means that US banks can lend out $3,300 for every deposit of $100 or $140.25 in profit off of $3,300 created out of thin air at 4.25% plus a wack of service charges... Imagine how profitable the credit card biz is at 14%

Canadian banks do not have a reserve requirement and can lend out a limitless amount of money created out of thin air with compound interest attached...

But what is the reserve requirement anyway? Just debt owed to someone else or to another bank in the ponzi scheme...

I'm not talking about a fantasy This is how the money supply is expanded...

If the system was a 100% reserve system then you can lend out $100 for every deposit of $100... thats the way most people assume it works...It doesen't

Now lending money you don't have is one thing charging rent on it is another thing all together...

If you don't think this is how it works DBS prove me wrong... is it so hard to realize you and billions of people have been duped all your lives...What is so hard to grasp?

DBS at what point in your formal education did you hear the words fractional reserve banking mentioned? When was the first time you heard it on the TV or Radio? It is the most important aspect of the economy but is never mentioned...strange.

The system runs on ignorance and the education system is used to create ignorant victims...What is your theory as to why you don't know about the system that you depend on to put food in your mouth?

Now I'm sure if you would have gotten into economics in University you might have come across it. But I doubt after 3 years of economics the "few and the proud" know much about fractional reserve banking...

I "knew" about FRB for years and after 8 years of study... I found Capitalstool and the resources here were the final piece of the puzzle... the 9-10th year of study was when I finally "comprehended" the basic mechanics of the doomsday machine called FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING...

Just the simple operation after 10 years of study looks like this below.

Step 1 Inflate/hyperinflate debt and destroy savings...

Step 2 Deflate debt and destroy equity...

Step 3 Bankruptcy of the banks and collapse of the economy...

That how fractional reserve banking works... Every time for 100's and even 1000's of years...
"We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money (at the request of the consumer) we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system.... It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon." --Robert H. Hemphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank,1938...

#311 longOnUranus

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 04:09 AM

"As of his death in 1977 Dr. Carroll Quigley is no longer with us, yet Tragedy and Hope is a hallmark of history, a classic to be owned by those who care to know of the forces that have shaped and are shaping history."

Carroll Quigley's Tragedy and Hope: A History Of The World In Our Time.

To bad Dr. Q is dead he was so close to the finish line

Famous Quigley quote:

"The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is the American Branch of a society which originated in England... (and) ...believes national boundaries should be obliterated and one-world rule established."

*******

Quigley was wrong to think that this group should not be secretive

Were their membership and deliberations widely known, there would be blood in the streets (re: my previous post about extinguishing the profesional classes). The fact that Jerry Springer is running for the US Congress is evidence enough of the fervant anti-intellectualism which rules the land. Remember "effete snobbs" ? (sp) - Spiro Agnew

#312 Hypertiger

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 07:10 AM

Let me also say this: to opine that a rejection of the hypertyper doom scenario is equivalent to a bullish stance is as ludicrous as saying the fractional reserve system poses the greatest threat to sound money when the $140 trillion odd derivatives market in no way impacts any measures of money supply.

While I’m at it I might as well also pass on a bit of advice I once got from an old city hand about how to position oneself in bearmarkets; “When it hits get into gold stocks or futures or something. But whatever you do never take possession of the physical stuff. It is liable to rot the brain, don’t you know”

Please tell us about the bright future you have in store for us... rejection? is that anything like the rejection when they tried to take Damian to church in the Omen?

Reject reality all you want it will not save you... soon the salvation of wall street will turn into eternal Damnation and you can take that to the bank...
"We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money (at the request of the consumer) we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system.... It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon." --Robert H. Hemphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank,1938...

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 07:37 AM

Hyper,

I don’t see much point in continuing this until Doc has taken a view on whether there is any justification for my previous comments having been wiped from the record.

#314 Guest_AssMaster_*

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 09:15 AM

I understand that. Do you really think that "they" will be any better at managing a completely unanchored fiat money system than they are a debt-backed system? To me it just guarantees a hyperinflation before the ultimate collapse.

It's been done before. Who knows how it would turn out? I'm just suggesting one way to push things past the HT time window.

#315 mjkst27

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Posted 21 July 2003 - 09:18 AM

Deep Blue - here's a thought for you....in economics theory, it is held, if I am not mistaken, that the greater the propensity to save, the lower will interest rates be, as all that rentable (rentabulous? you look mahvelous) "capital" fistfights with each other for the right to be put to work in some investment/project somewhere or something.

Sort of like sperms crawling over each other trying to get to the egg

ANYWAY

the point is, if this old economic saw is TRUE, then how the hell do we have rock bottom interest rates and nobody saves a flipping dime?

ANSWER

because the fractional reserve banking/economic system completely and totally distorts the whole idea that one man's savings is another's capital if the two can agree on an interest rate and terms.

The system doesn't NEED anybody to save a gaddamn thing

The system needs everyone to go out and borrow to the MAX (entre Hyper-tigre meow!)

THEREFORE, what the world needs is frigging COLLATERAL, not SAVINGS

someone hurry up and build a few million more mcmansions woodja?

Sorry, don't follow your line of arguement.

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seemed pretty simple and straightforward to me





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