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Venezuela Strike Crisis Deepens


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#1 Yoshaviah

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Posted 08 December 2002 - 10:20 PM

". . . anal cysts have warned that a shutdown for longer than two days could have a major impact on US and world oil prices. . . " - article

A rise in the price of oil at this time of the year might cause a few problems for Bush and da boyz. A higher oil price is in effect a hidden tax.

#2 Yoshaviah

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Posted 08 December 2002 - 10:47 PM

More from Bullberg -

". . . ``It could be one to three weeks before exports and production resume,'' said Tetsu Emori, a commodities strategist at Mitsui Bussan Futures Ltd. in Tokyo. ``It's winter time too, so heating oil demand will be coming up when these disruptions happen.''

Crude oil rose as much as 45 cents, or 1.67 percent, to $27.38 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange, after talks with Venezuelan strikers yesterday failed to end the protests. It traded at $27.35 at 10:12 a.m. in Singapore.

Oil has risen 38 percent this year, putting it on track for the biggest annual gain since 1999. Prices could rise to between $29 and $30 by the year-end, Emori said. . . " - article

Just what the Doctor ordered to put more pressure on the markets at a critical time.

#3 BAREister

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Posted 08 December 2002 - 10:48 PM

THIS sort of thing is what HRFF means when he speaks of "HAYWIRE THEORY"...or Robert Burns.
"The sphinx set riddles for people which they could not solve and the sphinx devoured them." Russian poet Ilia Ehrenberg reflecting years later upon the debacle of the Bolshevik Revolution and civil war

"In any case, experience shows people are unlikely to change their ways without a cataclysm of existential proportions" Meinhard Meigel, German economist and demography expert on his prophecy of a Wagnerian abyss of social and economic chaos

"We believe that here is no easy way out of this mess, and that the chance of a benign outcome, while hopefully possible, is quite low." Comstock Partners 3-17-2005

"Not without a shudder may the human hand reach into the mysterious urn of destiny." Junk email promoting the sale of Valium, Viagra, Soma and Cialis. Of course, we AMERICANS need not WORRY about such CLAPTRAP!!!

"The trouble about myths, or lies, is that those who foster them are stuck with them." Edward Crankshaw

"I don't buy the idea that a crash will come without warning. There are always warnings. All crashes have certain common technical preconditions." Doc (snorjt)

"YOU look IMPORTANT. Are you important, or just....WEIRD?"
"Bob I am" at a political gathering, to HRFF, 9-29-04

"Are YOU C.I.A.???"
"No, I'm not "CIA"."
"Well, you sure LOOK LIKE you're C.I.A.!!!"

Lead singer of the rock band KISS to HRFF at a luggage carousel at SeaTac airport circa 1996

"Unlike you, I use words people can understand." Doc

"America at the moment, with its faith-based currency, faith-based economy and faith-based government, might be a heaven for those who love faith, but it's a hell for those of us that respect evidence." The Daily (W?)Reckoning, circa 9-17-04

"What should be clear at this point is that even huge fiscal stimulus and unprecedented financial excess are incapable of fostering a sound and self-sustaining economic expansion. The paramount issue, today and going forward, is the deeply maladjusted U.S. economy and its increasing unresponsiveness to even enormous yet misdirected financial stimulus. Both the Financial Sphere and Economic Sphere are severely maladjusted." Doug Noland's Credit Bubble Bulletin, Aug 24 '04

"U.S. dollar purchasing power relies almost entirely on the difference between interest rates in Japan and the higher rates in the United States." Warren Pollock, Prudent Bear essay circa 9-04

"What about your replacements? the Children. What do we tell them when the whole thing caves in?" HyperTiger

#4 Jorma

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 08:03 PM

My understanding is that there are 5 TV networks and they are all rabidly anti Chavez. It isn't too hard to reach a conclusion on why there is a 'crisis'. He got 70% of the vote but doesn't have the media. He would still probably get 70% of the vote.


The broader trend toward media selection of govenments is well established. Which makes Chavez crushing vote victory an anomaly. Probably due to the stark divide in income distribuition there, This exsts in all Latin America but only in Venezuala is there an oil elite.

The normal path is for the TV media to shape consensus. The richest man in Italy , a TV media mogul, is PM. This trend is happening elsewhere.

It should be noted that when the dominant 'media' was newspapers, in the thirties, it has been said that 90% of all US papers were anti Roosevelt, many rabidly so. (radio was for the most part then was apolitical) It mattered not. Televisions and radios power to stoke political emotion are orders of magnitude more powerful than that of the press.

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#5 Goldmember

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Posted 10 December 2002 - 07:33 PM

Well, I just saw footage of the striking masses in Venezuala surrounding the media outlets ready to haze the place. Dey ain't taking no mo crap! Runs on banks, stores, stockpiling, chaos in general developing to new extremes each day. I hope the masses win!
Anthony caused pearls to be dissolved in wine to drink the health of Cleopatra; Sir Richard Whittington was as foolishly magnificent in an entertainment to King Henry V; and Sir Thomas Gresham drank a diamond, dissolved in wine, to the health of Queen Elizabeth, when she opened the Royal Exchange; but the breakfast of this roguish Dutchman was as splendid as either. He had an advantage, too, over his wasteful predecessors: their gems did not improve the taste or the wholesomeness of their wine, while his tulip was quite delicious with his red herring.here

#6 Jorma

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 01:16 AM

Well I heard more on this today and it has gotten more complicated. First note that I am not defending this guy Chavez in any way but was pointing out he won an election handily. I'll stick with my conviction that there is a crisis, and an erstwhile coup, as the direct result of massmedia.

The protests at the media outlets were organized by Chavez political allies. It is pretty hard to like this kind of thing, but then again, the media itself is organized agaist him by his political foes. There is a state run TV network which is skewed to the governement. So it goes.

The oil workes, who comprise the middle class tend to side with the elites. Bought off in other words. The oil strikes and bank closings can be seen as a strategy by Chavez opponents to further crisis and erode his support. It is working. He is losing support because in the end, the average person just wants things to be normal.

The oppostion is calling for an election to solve the 'crisis'. I think Chavez has a fixed term but at this point he will probably have to give in and call a special election.

You might note that Venezula is the only Latin American country that we seem to care about. Even Argentina, while generating some interest, the interest has no political basis. But Venezuala, have to keep that oil flowing.
I think the White House finally figured out the coup was a bit crude. They want that new election now. So much more palatable.

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#7 DogBoy

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 10:20 PM

The real interesting thing is that just like the US in Venezueal thay have a lawful way of impeaching and removing a President but even with the massive dislike of Chavez his opponents have been unable to muster enough support in the legislative branch.

So they resort to violence and trouble making.

And I also think that his opponents realize that the results of another election would likely be the same as the last one and Chavez would have even more power at that point.

This thing is going to soon go to a all-out civil war and I mean a REAL serious one that could go on for some time.

And the real shame lies in the US tacit approval of the violent overthrow of Chavez.

If a violent overthrow occurs and the US recognizes the new government what kind of hypocritical message does that send to the world ?

I'm not a supporter of Chavez by any means but from what I've read he's been VERY restained in dealing with his opponents.

At one point he had 1000's of people (some armed) marching on the gates of his Presidential residence.

What do you think would happen if 100's of Americans decided to march on the White House with arms while Dubya was sittin in the Oval Office ?

They be shot cold dead... that's what would happen.

And it would be a legal and proper thing to do as well.

Chavez opponents need to pursue ONLY legal means to remove him and if it doesn't happen then it's God's will and they need to accept it and deal with his even if they hate him.

If they can't make a good enough argument to sway a majority of the people or even a mojority of the legislature (for impeachment) then their positions must nt be very sound.

The only way a a democratically elected President should be removed is thru the legislature or the ballot box.

Anything else is totally unacceptable in the US or anywhere else.

By advocating the violent overthrow of Chavez his opponents are breaking the law just as any group in the US would be doing the same.

#8 Jorma

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 12:10 AM

This whole thing has an inevitability about it that makes it a parody. Graham Green wote this book 50 years ago. Everyone knows the script. Niceties about democratic principals are the province of the hopelessly naive.

During the first 'coup' the NY Times chimed in with its tacit support. Presumeably prepared for the inevitable by the most important unnamed sources. While liberal on social and scientific issues the Times reliably stands above the fray in these sort of messy international dust ups, and then goes onto the field when the battle is over to shoot the wounded. There was never any indication they were embarrassed supporting a change in government that hadn't yet occured.

In a few weeks or months it will be over and the oil will be flowing and Venezuala will disapper from view. The sideshow over.

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#9 assteroid

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 04:08 PM

This is NOT a popular uprising. Imagine, if you will, AFTER the American revolution, if the empire loyalists hadn't fled to Canada. (My mother's family, actually!)., Imagine if they hung around and continued to agitate for a reestablishment of British control, or proxy control, with the help of British agents and sympathizers .What if they had taken up marching in the streets, representing themselves as the injured party? Now wouldn't that be just a bit irritating? This is a very rough analogy, but think about it.

The "rebellion" is in large part, theatrical, and no doubt, fuelled in part, by CIA covert operations. The media, is not a democratic communication tool. It represents an entrenched oil oligarchy, attempting to topple a popularly elected government. I think Chavez has actually been pretty patient. I fully expect him to be assassinated soon.

BTW, Jorma, you're sounding a bit like a conspiracy theorists!!! :D

#10 soylentgreen

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 05:22 PM

Venezual
Venezuala
Venzuala
Ven****
Please!!

VENEZUELA

#11 Jorma

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 05:58 PM

Venezual
Venezuala
Venzuala
Ven****
Please!!

VENEZUELA

Guilty

I've been public enemy #1 of the spelling police, and their auxiliary the typing police, for a long time.

Just try to nab me copper!

War is the last great hope of the incompetent to order the unwilling to attempt the impossible.
William Eastlake 'The Bamboo Bed'

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#12 Guest_Icky Twerp_*

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Posted 12 December 2002 - 06:15 PM

FWIW
I heard on Pacifica Radio weeks ago that the first attempted coup against Chavez was foiled because Saudi friends in OPEC warned him in time. The US was complicit in the foiled coup, of course.

It is hard not to become a frothing-at-the-mouth conspiracy nut unwelcome at parties the longer one contemplates the machinations of this global chess game involving the US, OPEC, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, the "war on terrorism", etc. Nevermind Lula & Brasil.

I have tried to comfort some people concerned with eroding civil liberties and world-wide-conflagration with the consolation that the impending world-wide-depression will make all those considerations secondary, if not trivial.

None of them understand me when I counsel buying gold.





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