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IDS World Markets Thurs 6th December 07


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#16 curious

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 08:01 AM

This part from the bloomberg article caused 5 minutes of hysterical laugh:

"...Those with scores above 660 will be more closely scrutinized to determine whether they are eligible or must continue making payments under existing terms, said the person..."

Now everyone with adjustable arm and credit score above 660 just have to work HARD to lower their credit score and they will get the benefit too, problem solved in unconventional way ;)

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Additionally while working on reducing FICO score below 660 these folks will save US from consumer recession ! What a plan !

#17 Mies van der Rump

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 08:22 AM

BoE cuts a quarter point:

a shocking turn of events...yawn

#18 FauxCaster

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 08:50 AM

This part from the bloomberg article caused 5 minutes of hysterical laugh:

"...Those with scores above 660 will be more closely scrutinized to determine whether they are eligible or must continue making payments under existing terms, said the person..."

Now everyone with adjustable arm and credit score above 660 just have to work HARD to lower their credit score and they will get the benefit too, problem solved in unconventional way ;)

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Better stop making those auto payments to lower your score real quick. Then the government will issue a 5-year freeze on auto payments and all the deadbeats can have free automobiles. The New Deal: Not for the poor, but for the dead beats. What a country!
"WE ARE BEING KEPT ALIVE by the Entropic movement of Dark Matter(Sino-Nippo-dollar purchasing of $UST)---as soon as there is a ringing sound,a sign of an clogged artriosclerotic wormhole on the emergency fiat-meter it will end--dynamic equilibrium,will have been achieved;better known as death" -- beardrech (Mar 15 2006, 01:17 AM)

"There's a good chance he was drunk or drugged. Only an idiot would jump into the bear cage." -- Belgrade Zoo Director Vuk Bojovic (August 20, 2007).

It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. -- Hitchhiker (S.A.M. 1998)

Mar 28 2003: July 2003 is the time I have identified as the low of the bear move...then the first leg of the bear is over ...many will be caught by surprise to see the market near it's all time high again within 3-4 years [2007] ..."depression" similar to 1932 doesn't come until 2010. -- blackbelt (Mar 28 2003, 10:05 PM)

#19 K Wave Rider

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 08:54 AM

This jam may just fail before the open....

#20 DrStool

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 08:56 AM

Much ado about nothing. The deal will fall apart within days. It's unenforceable, will result in additional writedowns, trigger countless lawsuits, and the simple announcement of this deal will reduce the mortgage market to a shambles. The secondary mortgage market will cease to function. How do you price this stuff if the government can force a change of terms at will?

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#21 FauxCaster

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 08:58 AM

Much ado about nothing. The deal will fall apart within days. It's unenforceable, will result in additional writedowns, trigger countless lawsuits, and the simple announcement of this deal will reduce the mortgage market to a shambles. The secondary mortgage market will cease to function. How do you price this stuff if the government can force a change of terms at will?

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Surely Paulson knows this. So what's the angle of his dangle in all of this? What's his real goal? A high-ranking officer of the US government really suggesting we repudiate 200 years of contract law (2000 years really)?
"WE ARE BEING KEPT ALIVE by the Entropic movement of Dark Matter(Sino-Nippo-dollar purchasing of $UST)---as soon as there is a ringing sound,a sign of an clogged artriosclerotic wormhole on the emergency fiat-meter it will end--dynamic equilibrium,will have been achieved;better known as death" -- beardrech (Mar 15 2006, 01:17 AM)

"There's a good chance he was drunk or drugged. Only an idiot would jump into the bear cage." -- Belgrade Zoo Director Vuk Bojovic (August 20, 2007).

It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. -- Hitchhiker (S.A.M. 1998)

Mar 28 2003: July 2003 is the time I have identified as the low of the bear move...then the first leg of the bear is over ...many will be caught by surprise to see the market near it's all time high again within 3-4 years [2007] ..."depression" similar to 1932 doesn't come until 2010. -- blackbelt (Mar 28 2003, 10:05 PM)

#22 K Wave Rider

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 09:03 AM

EUR/JPY on the edge of a giant cliff here....

#23 curious

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 09:03 AM

Much ado about nothing. The deal will fall apart within days. It's unenforceable, will result in additional writedowns, trigger countless lawsuits, and the simple announcement of this deal will reduce the mortgage market to a shambles. The secondary mortgage market will cease to function. How do you price this stuff if the government can force a change of terms at will?

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Surely Paulson knows this. So what's the angle of his dangle in all of this? What's his real goal? A high-ranking officer of the US government really suggesting we repudiate 200 years of contract law (2000 years really)?

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They already made an irreversible damage just by announcing this utmost idiocy. So I second the question - what is the real plan guys ?

#24 DrStool

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 09:06 AM

I would say this. Anyone who sold paper that carried a 13% coupon obviously knew that they were fleecing the borrower.

Anyone who bought this paper deserves whatever losses they suffer. The whole process of suckering weak credits into this toxic garbage was a crime. Mass theft on the greatest scale in history.

The mortgage bankers who created, sold and packaged this crap should all go to jail.

Morally, modifying the terms to reverse the devastating effects of this crime is the right thing to do. The creators and holders of this toxic junk deserve whatever losses they suffer. Willful ignorance is not an excuse. The practical effect--everybody loses and the markets have been and will continue to be devastated-- is simple proof of the maxim, "What goes around, comes around", or even better, "You get what you pay for."

Let the prosecutions begin. Hopefully, the bankers who originally created this stuff will not get off scot-free.

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#25 DrStool

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 09:15 AM

The most popular option in last night's poll was "I will wait to go short." The least popular for a tie were "I will short the open," and "I will wait for a pullback to go long."

From a contrarian standpoint, the market should be shorted at the open, covered and reversed on the pullback, with the market finishing higher on the day.

:)

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#26 elh

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 09:16 AM

Anyone who bought this paper deserves whatever losses they suffer. The whole process of suckering weak credits into this toxic garbage was a crime. Mass theft on the greatest scale in history.


Morally, modifying the terms to reverse the devastating effects of this crime is the right thing to do. The creators and holders of this toxic junk deserve whatever losses they suffer. Willful ignorance is not an excuse. The practical effect--everybody loses and the markets have been and will continue to be devastated-- is simple proof of the maxim, "What goes around, comes around", or even better, "You get what you pay for." 


I disagree. There are laws that disallow some contracts from being valid. In this case, that paper and terms were sold under valid law. A contract is the basis of the rule of law.

I can't see how you can justify this as the right thing to do. Right for whom? Willful ignorance extends both ways, including the idiot borrowers who just signed on the dotted line. People talk about fiduciary responsibility of agents, but that doesn't give people carte blanche to sign loan documents without a freaking clue.

These buyers of paper deserve the losses they will get - which is when borrowers default and make their paper worthless. Then they get whatever the house sells at firesale prices. Willful ignorance on the part of buyers guarantee their losses.

The FCBs, they deserve all the shaft they are getting up the rear except they can just re-print their losses.

#27 Sudaca

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 09:16 AM

Perspective:


"By many measures, fiscal 2007 was the most challenging of the forty years that Toll Brothers has been in business," said a statement from Chairman Robert Toll. "1974 was perhaps rougher, but the difficult times only lasted one year."

http://money.cnn.com.../toll/index.htm
Thanks, David

#28 Sudaca

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 09:21 AM

Anyone who bought this paper deserves whatever losses they suffer. The whole process of suckering weak credits into this toxic garbage was a crime. Mass theft on the greatest scale in history.


Morally, modifying the terms to reverse the devastating effects of this crime is the right thing to do. The creators and holders of this toxic junk deserve whatever losses they suffer. Willful ignorance is not an excuse. The practical effect--everybody loses and the markets have been and will continue to be devastated-- is simple proof of the maxim, "What goes around, comes around", or even better, "You get what you pay for." 


I disagree. There are laws that disallow some contracts from being valid. In this case, that paper and terms were sold under valid law. A contract is the basis of the rule of law.

I can't see how you can justify this as the right thing to do. Right for whom? Willful ignorance extends both ways, including the idiot borrowers who just signed on the dotted line. People talk about fiduciary responsibility of agents, but that doesn't give people carte blanche to sign loan documents without a freaking clue.

These buyers of paper deserve the losses they will get - which is when borrowers default and make their paper worthless. Then they get whatever the house sells at firesale prices. Willful ignorance on the part of buyers guarantee their losses.

The FCBs, they deserve all the shaft they are getting up the rear except they can just re-print their losses.

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I think that's why he began the paragraph with "morally". <_<
Thanks, David

#29 bondtrader

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 09:28 AM

QLGC was a nice one yesterday to bad i did not take a trade in it. I am in CRESY for the time being ...

#30 K Wave Rider

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 09:34 AM

The most popular option in last night's poll was "I will wait to go short." The least popular for a tie were "I will short the open," and "I will wait for a pullback to go long."

From a contrarian standpoint, the market should be shorted at the open, covered and reversed on the pullback, with the market finishing higher on the day.

:)

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We hit the target range overnight...it is possible that that was all she wrote. I don't think anyone expects that....every board I read last night, most everyone was looking for higher prices first...including me :lol: Maybe we all get a big surprise....

If that EUR/JPY breaks down, all hell could break loose....





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