The End Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 I forgot to mention my mental stop on the potential longs. 1060 close (firm) Good night and good luck stoolies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 990N has been in the house with his big pants on for the last two days. Despite a lack of volume - the script was adhered to with the backing of the US Treasury Department - buying stocks like it was 1999. The audacity shown by the lock-step orchestration of the talking heads in concert with the US Government to push the markets higher at a moment when a crash looked imminent sends a very clear message. The term "Too Big To Fail" has never been more appropriate. With all of the newly minted paper that has been thrown at this science project over the past few months, they are not going to let it fall without spending everything they've got - and the budget for that mission is of course unlimited (as are the tricks available to prevent a total melt down). Oil going up? So what! UNLIMITED FUNDS & UNLIMITED HUBRIS. With unlimited funds, unlimited hubris, unlimited control of all data and unlimited power -not to mention the world's most powerful military with which to threaten other countries into compliance) - they need only make the evidence of their manipulations totally visible to all (intentionally) to eventually turn the forces of nature to their side. Gravity is not a more powerful force than a wild cornered animal with the desire to lie cheat and steal - with access to unlimited funds - unlimited weapons - unlimited influence - no morals - and no concern for future generations. Get on the train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardrech Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 We're not talking about money payback. Different question. We're talking about energy payback. I am not making *any* argument as to whether or not PV solar is cheaper than utility energy. The energy payback question is, very simply, do you get more energy out of the device over some period than you put into making it. The answer is yes, you get the energy investment back quite quickly. This is an interesting question because solar energy is renewable and most utility energy still comes from fossil fuels, which will run out someday. The question is, what do we do then? The answer is a qualified yes if we ignore the frame issue. Most applications are going to demand a frame, while certain customized installations could be done without the frame. Look I am a firm believer in solar for a lot of reasons, but it has limitations. We cannot cover the entire SouthWest with solar panels nor can you realistically run a car/80,000 pound semi/train off of solar panels. I would dearly love to see all home lighting converted to solar/low voltage. I think this is one area that could offer a relatively quick payback and make a large dent in conventional power consumption. For not so sunny markets this can be supplemented with small wind generators. It's also something that's not too hard to retrofit to virtually any home. It won't work everywhere, but it will work in most places. But for powering things like washing machines, air conditioning, refrigeration, etc. it is not really practical, requiring large inverters and massive battery banks. America has set itself up to be an energy glutton for as far as the eye can see. Our homes are large, and so is their consumption. We have over 10X the retail square footage of Europe. We will continue to buy the largest gas sucking vehicles we can afford to fuel. The only thing that will change this is the price of the energy we can afford. We eventually will be forced to change our ways, but not until the gun is to our temple. SJ>> Eight months of treading water in my account...when's this MF gonna break?!? When Brian's pig drops it's umbrella and falls off the wire. Look we all know high oil prices are good for the economy. We know the jobs market is fabulous. We know that future profits are going to break all records. We know the economy is strong and getting stronger and will soon be the strongerest of all. What's not to like? Oh did I mention this is scam-o-rama week? You need a long term central storage system for it to work... Then like I said you are fighting clouds...You have to assume that the minimum potential sunlight will never be broken...If it is you are game over... It all boils down to the top sucking from the bottom...The top is hopelessly dependant upon the enslavement of the bottom to enjoy what the top considers freedom... Any plan that puts limits on the tops quest for imortality/absolute power is not going to be accepted...Ultimately the only plan in the end if the tops power begins to run out is the elimination of those at the bottom...You have 2 slaves polishing your shoes but only have enough power to sustain 1.5 shoe polishers...It is very simple, eliminate one shoe polisher...You can either send them to a slave labor camp or a death camp or a slave labor death camp combo... The problem with you people is you have no clue of what reality is...OTL < Out to lunch Where do you think all the products from China are produced? Huge slave labor factory hives in the interior... Row after row of high story apartments filled with bunk beds surrounded by barbed wire fences and check points... And again there is a finite limit to this quick fix stacked on top of all the other failed quick fixes to sustain your ability to maintain the fantasy world you are living in... Why not a manhatten project researching the best and most environmentally charitable method for simply returning to massive usage of COAL--COAL-But beardrech :cry: But But But that's so nineteenth century!! --------Ok so get yourself a used Clock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearHugs Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Bear guzzles 36 beers, passes out at campground Shoulda used stops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian4 Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Hey Bareister-Where did you get bear Suit?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypertiger Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Sorry it is not unlimited... Without 9-11 the markets would have imploded... But all they accomplished was the buying of more time... The next staged scapegoat will be the finisher offer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian4 Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Interesting just watched an interview with Diana Kerry, Johns sister she is in Vancouver for 3 days soliciting votes for the 250,000 (ya blew me away too) Americans who live in British Columbia. There are a total of 675,000 Americans living in Canada who either have dual citizenship, are married to a Canadian or have never taken out Canadian Citizenship. Global TV took an extensive survey and found over 90% who did NOT vote in the two previous U.S. elections WILL this time and WILL vote for Kerry, the clips they ran ranged from...Shrub is a World embarassment, to war mongering Idiot to the Moron who broke the Bank. Astute people these ex pats! They then interviewed the Blonde Bubblehead who is here at the same time for the repubs who admitted Kerry would win most of the vote from Muricans living in Canada cuz everyone knows Canada is a Liberal Country, well Honey compared to Bushco you are right-why don't you just hop on one of those Blackhawks deployed on the border and screw off home. On another note it took our Military a nano -second to say uh-uh SHrub you aren't flying in our air space-Sigh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypertiger Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 We're not talking about money payback. Different question. We're talking about energy payback. I am not making *any* argument as to whether or not PV solar is cheaper than utility energy. The energy payback question is, very simply, do you get more energy out of the device over some period than you put into making it. The answer is yes, you get the energy investment back quite quickly. This is an interesting question because solar energy is renewable and most utility energy still comes from fossil fuels, which will run out someday. The question is, what do we do then? The answer is a qualified yes if we ignore the frame issue. Most applications are going to demand a frame, while certain customized installations could be done without the frame. Look I am a firm believer in solar for a lot of reasons, but it has limitations. We cannot cover the entire SouthWest with solar panels nor can you realistically run a car/80,000 pound semi/train off of solar panels. I would dearly love to see all home lighting converted to solar/low voltage. I think this is one area that could offer a relatively quick payback and make a large dent in conventional power consumption. For not so sunny markets this can be supplemented with small wind generators. It's also something that's not too hard to retrofit to virtually any home. It won't work everywhere, but it will work in most places. But for powering things like washing machines, air conditioning, refrigeration, etc. it is not really practical, requiring large inverters and massive battery banks. America has set itself up to be an energy glutton for as far as the eye can see. Our homes are large, and so is their consumption. We have over 10X the retail square footage of Europe. We will continue to buy the largest gas sucking vehicles we can afford to fuel. The only thing that will change this is the price of the energy we can afford. We eventually will be forced to change our ways, but not until the gun is to our temple. SJ>> Eight months of treading water in my account...when's this MF gonna break?!? When Brian's pig drops it's umbrella and falls off the wire. Look we all know high oil prices are good for the economy. We know the jobs market is fabulous. We know that future profits are going to break all records. We know the economy is strong and getting stronger and will soon be the strongerest of all. What's not to like? Oh did I mention this is scam-o-rama week? You need a long term central storage system for it to work... Then like I said you are fighting clouds...You have to assume that the minimum potential sunlight will never be broken...If it is you are game over... It all boils down to the top sucking from the bottom...The top is hopelessly dependant upon the enslavement of the bottom to enjoy what the top considers freedom... Any plan that puts limits on the tops quest for imortality/absolute power is not going to be accepted...Ultimately the only plan in the end if the tops power begins to run out is the elimination of those at the bottom...You have 2 slaves polishing your shoes but only have enough power to sustain 1.5 shoe polishers...It is very simple, eliminate one shoe polisher...You can either send them to a slave labor camp or a death camp or a slave labor death camp combo... The problem with you people is you have no clue of what reality is...OTL < Out to lunch Where do you think all the products from China are produced? Huge slave labor factory hives in the interior... Row after row of high story apartments filled with bunk beds surrounded by barbed wire fences and check points... And again there is a finite limit to this quick fix stacked on top of all the other failed quick fixes to sustain your ability to maintain the fantasy world you are living in... Why not a manhatten project researching the best and most environmentally charitable method for simply returning to massive usage of COAL--COAL-But beardrech :cry: But But But that's so nineteenth century!! --------Ok so get yourself a used Clock Because "they" are not trying to save you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brown Suguaro Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Yobob, Wonderful that you are a solar dealer. I appreciate you for that. Some time ago (maybe two years) I saw in "Parade" magazine a blurb about the engineers at the Nevada Test Site (90 miles north of Las Vegas) where our nuclear testing was done, had some time on their hands, and calculated that if the whole test site was covered in photovoltaic cells at 15% conversion effeciency, they would produce six times as much power in a year as the whole U.S. consumed. Many times I've wished I'd kept that little blurb with the date, etc., so I could get more info. Someone like Sherlock could probably find it. I might even give it a try myself, but I've got this slow computer you see? It's federal, so the information should be available. If this report is correct, then it seems to me we should get to installing them and save a barrel or two of oil. It's a no brainer that if you keep taking food out of the refrigerator without putting any back in, at some time you are going to be Old Mother Hubbard. Everybody thought they woud be long dead before the oil ran out, but hey, they even made a movie "Do The Right Thing" to tell us what we should be doing. So why aren't we? Oil is going to bring our country down, if it hasn't already. We should have continued what we started in the seventies, in converting to renewables, but big oil killed it. Now we pay. B.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 990N has been in the house with his big pants on for the last two days. Despite a lack of volume - the script was adhered to with the backing of the US Treasury Department - buying stocks like it was 1999. The audacity shown by the lock-step orchestration of the talking heads in concert with the US Government to push the markets higher at a moment when a crash looked imminent sends a very clear message. The term "Too Big To Fail" has never been more appropriate. With all of the newly minted paper that has been thrown at this science project over the past few months, they are not going to let it fall without spending everything they've got - and the budget for that mission is of course unlimited (as are the tricks available to prevent a total melt down). Oil going up? So what! UNLIMITED FUNDS & UNLIMITED HUBRIS. With unlimited funds, unlimited hubris, unlimited control of all data and unlimited power -not to mention the world's most powerful military with which to threaten other countries into compliance) - they need only make the evidence of their manipulations totally visible to all (intentionally) to eventually turn the forces of nature to their side. Gravity is not a more powerful force than a wild cornered animal with the desire to lie cheat and steal - with access to unlimited funds - unlimited weapons - unlimited influence - no morals - and no concern for future generations. Get on the train. The jam on Monday on bad economic news was my confirmation that the BOJ was making an open statement. They are going to guarantee a hundred point boner blast in the markets every week. The bushman is desperate and has no problem with openly manipulating the markets now. Dow 11,000 for the election is in the script. The media will tell everyone how the markets are anticipating a strong economy in '05 and that the worst is behind us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian4 Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Ah Beardrech- Winter, the snow falling the family gathered around the fireplace listening to the crackle of the burning furniture, the children reading by the glow of 40 watt light bulbs and knowing that tomorrow dad will use the last quart of Gas to drive the Family to Walmart for Wiener wednesday-it doesn't get any better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The End Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Ah Beardrech- Winter, the snow falling the family gathered around the fireplace listening to the crackle of the burning furniture, the children reading by the glow of 40 watt light bulbs and knowing that tomorrow dad will use the last quart of Gas to drive the Family to Walmart for Wiener wednesday-it doesn't get any better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 990N has been in the house with his big pants on for the last two days. Despite a lack of volume - the script was adhered to with the backing of the US Treasury Department - buying stocks like it was 1999. The audacity shown by the lock-step orchestration of the talking heads in concert with the US Government to push the markets higher at a moment when a crash looked imminent sends a very clear message. The term "Too Big To Fail" has never been more appropriate. With all of the newly minted paper that has been thrown at this science project over the past few months, they are not going to let it fall without spending everything they've got - and the budget for that mission is of course unlimited (as are the tricks available to prevent a total melt down). Oil going up? So what! UNLIMITED FUNDS & UNLIMITED HUBRIS. With unlimited funds, unlimited hubris, unlimited control of all data and unlimited power -not to mention the world's most powerful military with which to threaten other countries into compliance) - they need only make the evidence of their manipulations totally visible to all (intentionally) to eventually turn the forces of nature to their side. Gravity is not a more powerful force than a wild cornered animal with the desire to lie cheat and steal - with access to unlimited funds - unlimited weapons - unlimited influence - no morals - and no concern for future generations. Get on the train. The jam on Monday on bad economic news was my confirmation that the BOJ was making an open statement. They are going to guarantee a hundred point boner blast in the markets every week. The bushman is desperate and has no problem with openly manipulating the markets now. Dow 11,000 for the election is in the script. The media will tell everyone how the markets are anticipating a strong economy in '05 and that the worst is behind us. The Nikkei action is all run by the same team that brought us the manic ticks in the market. There is no Japanese market behaving independently. The Japanese market is being stage managed too. It's all in the script...part of the overnight action that set's up the open over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 990N has been in the house with his big pants on for the last two days.? Despite a lack of volume - the script was adhered to with the backing of the US Treasury Department - buying stocks like it was 1999.? The audacity shown by the lock-step orchestration of the talking heads in concert with the US Government to push the markets higher at a moment when a crash looked imminent sends a very clear message.? The term "Too Big To Fail" has never been more appropriate. With all of the newly minted paper that has been thrown at this science project over the past few months, they are not going to let it fall without spending everything they've got - and the budget for that mission is of course unlimited (as are the tricks available to prevent a total melt down).? Oil going up?? So what!? UNLIMITED FUNDS & UNLIMITED HUBRIS. With unlimited funds, unlimited hubris, unlimited control of all data and unlimited power -not to mention the world's most powerful military with which to threaten other countries into compliance) - they need only make the evidence of their manipulations totally visible to all (intentionally) to eventually turn the forces of nature to their side. Gravity is not a more powerful force than a wild cornered animal with the desire to lie cheat and steal - with access to unlimited funds - unlimited weapons - unlimited influence - no morals - and no concern for future generations. Get on the train. The jam on Monday on bad economic news was my confirmation that the BOJ was making an open statement. They are going to guarantee a hundred point boner blast in the markets every week. The bushman is desperate and has no problem with openly manipulating the markets now. Dow 11,000 for the election is in the script. The media will tell everyone how the markets are anticipating a strong economy in '05 and that the worst is behind us. The Nikkei action is all run by the same team that brought us the manic ticks in the market. There is no Japanese market behaving independently. The Japanese market is being stage managed too. It's all in the script...part of the overnight action that set's up the open over here. I think, and I really hate to say this, that the next ten weeks are going to be awfully hard on bears. The fascists are pulling out all the stops. Going to be one hell of a mess after the election though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basho Posted August 19, 2004 Report Share Posted August 19, 2004 Yobob, way back on page 8 or 9 you briefly discussed the energy ratio. I know you've touched on this a few times previously. Just to clarify, are you saying for example that more energy is used in manufacturing and maintaining wind turbines than they will produce over their lifetime? Also, do you have a few links so I can get a better handle on this issue? thanks and regards Basho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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