B4 The Bell Turdsday

[Guest]

With all due respect, that piece was pure revisionism.

 

The concept that they get you to buy is that the fire protection blew off and that's why the buildings fell. The steel melted, you see?

 

Question: At what temperature does steel melt or soften? Next: At what temperature does jet fuel burn?

 

The answer, unfortunately, is several hundreds of degress celcius unfavorable to the 'melted steel' hypothesis. Especially when one considers that jet fuel only burns grudgingly and if fully oxygenated. If deposited in the middle of a building, this is far from reality so shave 150 or so degrees off.

 

Futher, the newly released port authority tapes of the firefighters, some of whom made it to the 78th floor of the south tower (basically ground zero) called for stretchers, first aid, and a couple of hoses as there were only a few of low intesity fires to fight. In fact, the fires were very low on their list of concerns.

 

Worse, there have only been three steel frame buildings in history to have collapsed solely (allegedly) from the effects of fire. All happened on 9/11. The twin towers and WTC #7 which was not hit by a plane, only some debris, but caught fire and all 47 stories collapsed to the ground as a single pancake.

 

Sadly, WTC #7 contained all the SEC files for several major investigations which were permanantly lost forever damaging the prospects for convicton. Enron was among those cases.

 

In Philly, there was a major steel framed building, fully furnished, that caught fire and burned out of control for 2 weeks, and never weakened or fell. Ditto for one in LA. And Cairo. Etc.

 

Point being that modern steel framed buldings do not collapse from the effects of fire. That's a fact.

 

Except on 9/11, a day when facts proved to be oddly maleable. Seems all the rules were meant to be bent on that day.

 

Rules of enagement. Secret Service rules for protecting the president. Rules governing SOPs for hijackings. Criminy - everything just magically borke down that day. And now, because they've reorganized into a new department I should feel better? Hey Look! These three piles of crap are now one pile of crap! Want a bite? Uhhhhh. No thanks.

 

Unofrtunately, if you wanted to answer definatively what happened to the WTCs on 9/11 you are out of luck. The key structural members were carted off and shipped to India and recycled before any engineering studies could be conducted. Odd, but true. Further the company that performed the job was the same one that carted off the debris for the OK city bombing which was also, coincidentally, destroyed before a definitive set of studies could be performed.

 

I have lots of links for anybody that cares to look at the evidence. PM nd I'll provide.

 

Sherlock - spot on about flight 800. Not only were there over 175 credible witnesses who all saw a bright -yellow orange streak of light track and then intersect with the doomed 800, one of them was a military vteran who happened to ahve witnessed missile tests in the past and had a cats-eye seat on an adjacent airborn flight. He perrsonally watched the missile for 10-12 seconds before intercept. Knew exactly what he was looking at. FBI refused to interview him.

 

Worse and NTSB worker who smuggled a few scraps of oddly burnt seat material from a few critical rows of seats that tested positive for rocket fuel was - awarded a whistle blower medal? Nope! - prosecuted.

 

Think these cats won't lie about a couple of employment and GDP reports?

 

Hee hee hee.

 

Think again.

Thanks, Sphinxter, you express the points so much more eloquently than I.

 

 

Sherlock

[brian4]

Al good to see ya!

[threadbare]

Butterfield, Wow, you were actually there to see the plane fly into one of the twin towers! If you have the time and inclination I'd sure love to hear more about what that day was like for you.

 

My gut feeling was always that some cabal ,(unfortunately, that seems like the best word)-- likely the administration knew when, where, how-- and let it happen, as it provided an excuse for occupying the Middle East. I figured that they were probably as surprised as anyone when the buildings came right down. The planting of bombs in the buildings to facilitate complete destruction seemed to be overkill, regardless of who planned it and for what reason. However, the fact that the smaller building collapsed without benefit of jet fuel, in a similar manner, is beyond strange. What the f' is going on?

 

Bu$hco is just looking guiltier and guiltier by the day and not just of incompetence. The best documentary I've seen on the 911 failure was the one about FBI agent John O'Neil, head of the terrorism division and his horrendous problems trying to get his superiors to listen to him. This wasn't a mistake. Imagine the feather in the crown of the director if he had followed the leads he was being begged to follow, to their very logical and proper end? He'd be a hero, face on the cover of Time mag, the whole nine yards. This was willful obstruction, not error. I have actually gotten down on my hands and knees and prayed that those responsible face criminal prosecution one day.

[Guest]

wacko conspiracy theory:

 

THE SIRENS OF TITAN

 

Have you all heard Shrub's space exploration goals announcement. I think it's about a month old now. I believe the goals are putting a base on the moon and a manned landing on Mars. I heard about this second hand rather than the PR release Shrub mouthed himself.

 

I spent some time thinking about why the PTB would want to do this. It can't be for firing people up and getting us to all love Big Brother again / more completely. Kennedy already did this. The same thing the second time around would never have the same effect. Instead, I wonder if they are after the natural gas on Titan. For the reasons below, I really believe that is the most probable reason, that is if the announcement isn't just pure bull to make Shrub seem more "presidential."

 

First of all, Titan. Titan is a moon in orbit around Saturn. It is the biggest moon in the solar system, I believe larger than Mercury and approximately the size of Mars. It is covered by natural gas (CH4) in amounts that, if they were on Earth, would represent an inexhaustible supply of natural gas. CH4 exists primarily in liquid form on Titan, the way water does on Earth. The surface of Titan contains actual oceans of natural gas. It evaporates, forms clouds, and rains out just like on Earth, except the raindrops are liquid natural gas rather than water.

 

Now, while the above info on Titan may seem like dry, boring science stuff, imagine how exciting it could be to the top dogs of Halliburton, and plutocrats in general. The problem is getting the stuff to Earth and doing so profitably.

 

As I see it, the major problems are the landing on Titan, the extremely weighted-down take off from Titan, the several years travel time between Saturn and Earth, and the very hazardous landing on Earth with huge amounts of CH4. At present, NASA no doubt lacks the technology, expertise and experience to actually pull it off. That's where a moon base and Mars landing come in.

 

Because of the great distance, large travel time required, and great expense involved, profitably pulling off such a scheme will require shipping enormous amounts of gas from Saturn to Earth per load. I figure, there's no way in hell they can land that large a craft on Titan and then take off when full to the hilt. Rather, the space tanker will have to remain in orbit all times, with small craft landing on Titan and returning to the tanker multiple times to fully load the tanker. The landers merely have to land on some beach on Titan, and then the crew can simply siphon out of the ocean. Once the tanker's full, they only have to power out of orbit and cruise back to Earth, or the moon actually.

 

Bringing any one of these tankers anywhere near Earth would be too dangerous. One accident, and a failed orbit is one possibility, could poison the atmosphere and/or produce one hell of a destructive explosion. I figure Shrub's moon base is really intended as a natural gas depot. When a full tanker returns from Titan, it would go into orbit around the moon. They might even land the thing on the moon, facilitating such things as maintenance, repairs, and refueling of the tanker. From there, the gas could be transported back to Earth in much smaller quantities, by way of shuttle runs, given that the travel time between Earth and the moon is only a couple days.

 

So, as I see it, the purpose of the moon base is direct. It will be built as the natural gas depot, as briefly sketched above. The manned trip to Mars, on the other hand, serves the purpose of allowing NASA to work out the current shortcoming in technology and know-how needed to allow Halliburton to actually execute its corporate expansion to Titan. The whole orbit / landing / return to the mother ship routine no doubt needs to be seriously upgraded from the moon landings of the 1960s/1970s. Also, more intense gravity is involved. Mars would be a good proxy for Titan's gravity plus a shitload of natural gas. The other issue is the long distance of the tanker's haul, which must be manned. Whatever needs to be worked out to accomplish it can be worked out during a manned mission to Mars.

 

The above are just some thoughts. Of course, if such a scheme is implemented, even short of an accident, it will eventually poison Earth's atmosphere. Does the plutocracy care? Hell no! Nothing matters further out than the next quarterly estimates and returns of the corpses most important to the psychology bubble. Of all the threats to the current order that are out there, peak oil/gas may be the worst one. When this gets serious enough, no intensity of advertising, propaganda and well-told big lies will work to keep the bullshit ship afloat. Unless some alternative is close at hand, such as fuel cells that can get their own required energy input from the sun, wind, etc., they gotta get more oil or gas from somewhere.

 

In closing, I like the unintended irony of Vonnegut's story Sirens of Titan. The gist of the story is that a race of space aliens subtly manipulated Earth's course of history, and created great suffering for many. In the end, they only did this because one of their ships had broken down at Titan, and their manipulation on Earth was somehow necessary in order to get needed spare parts to the broken down vessel at Titan. As it turns out, space aliens aren't required after all! If Vonnegut only knew!

 

Just some thoughts, that to my mind best answer the question "Why?" At the same time, I know of no hard evidence suggesting such a scheme is in the works. Comments?

[Guest]

Thanks Dad, Er I mean Doc.

 

[threadbare]

If Plutocrats are going to exploit Saturn, does this mean Saturncrats get to have a go at the ice on Pluto?

[Sphinxter]

And remember, now that it's a legitimate forum, no more hate stuff.

 

That means no more hanging all the worlds woes on those pigmentally challenged, square-headed Swedes!

 

Farking Norwegians! Bane of the earth, and all things good.

 

Oops.

 

 

I'll stop now.

 

 

 

 

 

(I'm Swedish - the above was in jest!!).

[mjkst27]

I know I know oooh ooooh - Buffet's gonna swoop in and build a pipeline to Titan. Titan is the next next Middle East, after the Caspian region, which is the next Middle East. Isn't this wacko stuff fun?

 

B8 - the repat of foreign earnings by US multinationals is a tax code change that I cynically believe is an emergency dollar prop if push comes to shove and Buck gets out of control to the downside. JRMFL posted the House Resolution #'s one day but I lost them. I'm not sure if it ever actually passed, but as I said, if necessary to prop Buck, "they" will get it done. It lets companies repat foreign earnings at a far less onerous rate than current.

[Guest]

For Sphinxter,

 

Sven & Ollie

 

Sven and Ollie worked together and were laid off, so they went to the unemployment office. When asked his occupation, Olile answered, ?Panty stitcher: I sew the elastic onto women?s panties.?

The clerk looked up panty stitcher and found it under unskilled labor, so she gave him $300 a week unemployment pay.

 

Sven was asked his occupation. ?Diesel fitter,? he replied. Since diesel was a skilled job, the clerk gave him $600 a week.

 

When Ollie found he was furious. He stormed back into his office to find out why his friend and co-worker was collecting double his pay.

 

The clerk explained ?Panty stitchers are unskilled and diesel fitters are skilled labor.?

 

?What skill?? yelled Ollie. ?I sew the elastic on the panties, Sven puts them over his head and says: ?Yah, diesel fitter.?

[Guest]

If Plutocrats are going to exploit Saturn, does this mean Saturncrats get to have a go at the ice on Pluto?

 

I wouldn't mind seeing all plutocrats put on ice.

[Guest]

One more

 

Ole knows everybody. Ole was bragging to his boss one day, "You know, I know everyone there is to know. Just name someone, anyone, and I know them."

 

Tired of his boasting, his boss called his bluff, "OK, Ole how about Tom Cruise?"

 

"Sure, yes, Tom and I are old friends, and I can prove it."

 

So Ole and his boss fly out to Hollywood and knock on Tom Cruise's door, and sure enough, Tom Cruise, shouts, "Ole! Great to see you! You and your friend come right in and join me for lunch!"

 

Although impressed, Ole's boss is still skeptical. After they leave Cruise's house, he tells Ole that he thinks Ole's knowing Cruise was just lucky.

 

"No, no, just name anyone else," Ole says. ''President Bush," his boss quickly retorts.

 

"Yes," Ole says, "I know him."

 

His boss retorts, "If you can prove that you know him I'll fly out to Washington to see him."

 

And off they go. At the White House, Bush spots Ole on the tour and motions him and his boss over, saying, "Ole, what a surprise, I was just on my way to a meeting, but you and your friend come on in and let's have a cup of coffee first and catch up."

 

Well, the boss is very shaken by now, but still not totally convinced. After they leave the White House grounds, he expresses his doubts to Ole, who again implores him to name anyone else. "The Pope," his boss replies.

 

"Sure!" says Ole. "I've known the Pope a long time."

 

Again the unconvinced boss flies them off to Rome. Ole and his boss are assembled with the masses in Vatican Square when Ole says; "This will never work. I can't catch the Pope's eye among all these people. Tell you what, I know all the guards so let me just go upstairs and I'll come out on the balcony with the Pope."

 

And he disappears into the crowd headed toward the Vatican. Sure enough, half an hour later Ole emerges with the Pope on the balcony.

 

But by the time Ole returns, he finds that his boss has had a heart attack and is surrounded by paramedics. Working his way to his boss's side, Ole asks him, "What happened?"

 

His boss looks up and says, "I was doing fine until you and the Pope came out on the balcony and the Japanese tourist next to me asked, 'Who's that on the balcony with Ole?'

[mjkst27]

Warren Buffet will ship all plutocrats, including himself, to Pluto, after completing the Titanistan Pipeline.

[Guest]

Ok, Ok. last one

 

Three dead bodies turn up at the mortuary, all with very big smiles on their faces. The coroner calls the police to tell them what has happened.

 

"First body: Frenchman, 60, died of heart failure while making love to his mistress. Hence the enormous smile, Inspector", says the Coroner.

 

"Second body: "Scotsman, 25, won a thousand pounds on the lottery, spent it all on whisky. Died of alcohol poisoning, hence the smile."

 

The Inspector asked, "What of the third body?"

 

"Ah," says the coroner, "this is the most unusual one. Sven the Norwegian fom Minnesota, 45, struck by lightning."

 

"Why is he smiling then?" inquires the Inspector.

 

"Thought he was having his picture taken."

[brian4]

Sled- Whilst we are talking conspiracies may i recommend the book " The Day after Roswell" by Col. Philip J. Corso-Corso was a member of the National Security council and a man with pristine credentials who kept the BIGGEST secret ever-until he was 80 and let it all hang out.

[yellowfish]

?Yah, diesel fitter.?