machinehead Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 Thanks for your comment, Dustbowl. Surely there's no secret code. But there are political issues in every profession ... particularly in law, if you have ambitions to run for public office or be appointed to the judiciary. I feel that the legal profession and politics have become entwined to an unhealthy extent ... and would benefit from a more arms-length relationship. I'm particularly concerned about the growth of medical malpractice claims, because I feel it's pushing us toward socialized medicine (which would surely bring tort liability caps for civil service doctors). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiddMarket Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 Counselor Dustbowl- in my first post there were enough facts for you to chew on. I didn't see you address ONE point in that post. Or the one after. Instead, you show me the ABA propaganda- anecdotal crap: Anna Unlucky went to her doctor to have a bunion removed and he cut off her head by accident and you expect me to argue with that? I've seen the average malpractice case. Over and over again. 2 years after a mammogram, a patient is diagnosed with breast cancer. A doctor (who does nothing but testify in malpractice cases- probably a family practitioner) testifies that he perhaps sees a tiny dot in the film that may correspond to the tumor. 5 radiologists for the defense deny it. Jury feels sorry for the poor woman and awards a million bucks. Or finds for the doctor, in which case he wins? No... he's wasted probably 6 months of his life doing depositions, taking days off from work to appear at hearings, and spent $50K on legal counsel. Not to mention the stress of the trial. Nope- not gonna waste my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustbowl Posted February 5, 2003 Report Share Posted February 5, 2003 Dr. Skiddmarket, Good, I am glad you are seeing this as a waste of time. You have not convinced me and I am sure I have not convinced you. The battle will continue and I am sure we will both contribute in our own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAREister Posted February 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 gentlemen, The BARE's FURthest intent was to sew discord amongst you... machinehead, u r correct - there should be a more arms-length arrangement. HRFF is SNOT sure, but civil service docs, like, say, those in the VA, may be shielded from malpractice already. Usually one can't sue govt entities FUR torts inflicted by them. socialized medicine is desirable. 40 million Americans lack coverage altogether. The free market hASS clearly failed, and it is, partly, those who oppose it, who keep from them ANY coverage. They are driven to emergency rooms and drive up costs FUR everyone. It's an issue in WA St right now. The Guv wants to cut, deeply into the existing basic health plan. Critics are worried that will put up to 60,000 off the plan and drive them to emergency rooms for treatment, thereby driving up premiums FUR everyone else. There was a long article about this in the paper yesterday or the day beFUR. Up to 342,000 on an HMO may be adversely impacted. Cease your phobia! We are, eventually, almost certainly? going to have some FURm of quasi-socialized medicine. Govt and the insurance companies will screw it up to the point the middle class will revolt and demand it. You are, probably, DOOMED to FURustration in that regard. and 40 million sans ANY coverage is a DISGUSTING SHAMEFUL state of afFURs in a society so wealthy ass ours. PERIOD!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 "The free market hASS clearly failed ..." This is not a free market. Three simple reasons: (1) The tax law makes health insurance deductible for corps, but not individuals. This leads to ... (2) Indemnity coverage instead of catastrophic coverage, which makes third-party payers omnipresent, including ... (3) Government, via Medicare and Medicaid, which is approaching half the health-care market. Socialized medicine will resemble public schools: marginal quality, at three times the fair price, with no accountability. Read what's going on in Canada now, where they're debating how many billions needed to bring public health care up to snuff, in the wake of the Romanov report. Just like the endless billions we pump into new school buildings in the U.S., but the results never improve. Don't you laugh out loud when politicians tell us how often mammagrams should be administered, or how many days new mothers should stay in hospital after childbirth? Heal me, Doctor Bush! Bwa ha ha ha ha. Nuts, utterly nuts. All the talented doctors will bail the hell out of here when politicians become their bosses. I will watch where they go and follow them. Hopefully to a place with a low per capita population of lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BAREister Posted February 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Here's an example of what The BARE means by MEDICAL MALPRACTICE. In this case hospitals are to blame. HRFF was reFURring earlier, inter alia, to the huge # of people who die from the wrong prescriptions or combinations of prescription drugs. Here's a stat on hospital infections from a VERY recent article on smallpox innoculation and who should git it and who shouldn't by Dr. David Willimas, in Alternatives, Feb 2003, at pp. 159 - 160: "Currently, one out of every 20 patients gets an infection during a hospital stay. That works out to approximately 2 million patients a year, and, of those, approximately 90,000 die as a result of the infection. Reports also indicate that close to 4 million cases of infectious diseases are contracted from day care facilities each year. It's unknown how many of these result in death. "These atrocities alone should casue widespread panic in the streets. .... But what we know is that as many as three-quarters of these infections are easily preventable." He alleges the CDC has data on which hospitals have high rates but refuses to release the data. He accuses Dr's nurses etc. of poor hygene: "[D]ata from the CDC indicate that physicians still wash theirhands only 48 percent of the time between patients. With nurses, hand washing is even less frequent. When you're dealing with infectious diseases those numbers are absolutely ridiculous." "UNTIL THE CDC IS FURCED TO RELEASE ITS DATA THERE'S SNOT MUCH YOU CAN DO EXCEPT STAY OUT OF HOSPITALS." If it's THIS bad, HERE (he calls hospitals "some of the most dangerous places in the world you can be") what's it like ABROAD??? So look at the appalling death rates when you hear doctors gripe about lawyers, gentle readers. Do they live in glASS houses? YOU decide!!! They've saved The BARE's life on many occasions, at least three. So he's SNOT going to complain too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustbowl Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Machinehead: I have to agree with you on this. I have some questions though about our medical system vs. other socialized medicine countries. We continually hear that we have the best medical doctors, facilities, etc., but I wonder if the medical care provided is all that much different in socialized medicine countries. I have heard that we have the highest heart disease and obesity rates compared to other countries. Is our life expectancy that much better or worse compared to socialized medicine countries? I am not an expert in this area, but I wonder just how horrible the health care is in those countries????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 BARE Iatrogenic infection is a well-known risk of concentrating many sick people in one place. It also happens in schools, when kids catch colds and viruses and infections from each other. But you can't blame that on doctors. I would like to hear from our physician friends on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustbowl Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Machinehead: I believe BARE is referring to nosocomial infections acquired from instruments, staff, etc. not patient to patient infections. The most common infections acquired in health care facilities are staph infections. Nasty stuff that is hard to control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiddMarket Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 ...Socialized medicine will resemble public schools: marginal quality, at three times the fair price, with no accountability.... We have a model for socialized medicine going on at this moment in the U.S. It's called the Veterans Hospital system. Imagine the post office for health care. Yesterday, the New Jersey Legislature agreed to a cap on pain and suffering for medical malpractice. Another state wakes up. By the end of this year, every state in the Union will have a medical tort reform law in place. An idea whose time has come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustbowl Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Not so fast Dr. Skiddmarket. Our new Governor was an evil trial lawyer before he was elected. And yes, a good friend of mine. Also, the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee is a trial lawyer too. If anything there will be minor bills coming out of Judiciary. Dead in the water. The doctors around here have not gone on strike yet, they are too busy treating their patients I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiddMarket Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 The last few hold-outs. This is a problem that will solve itself. When there are only a few states without tort reform, those will be the states in which malpractice insurance is not available. And either the state will have to subsidize it (and it will be taxpayer money funding the ridiculous judgements- THAT won't last long), or they will permit doctors to go bare (in which case doctors will put their money where lawyers will never find it). Either way, the end is near for PI attorneys in the medical arena. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustbowl Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 I disagree Dr. The cap is only for non-economic damages. Shrub's proposal to cap at $250k will not pass. It will be higher. The economic damages in these cases are more than sufficient to pursue them. It will have little impact on the number of suits initiated. I checked with the 2 most experienced medical malpractice lawyers in our state to confirm their plan of action. They plan no change. In the one case I handled, the economic damages exceeded 4 million. Brain damaged baby. The reality is that medical malpractice lawyers are very careful in the cases they take. They are expensive to pursue and with all the doctors in collusion, they are difficult at best to win. In our state, the win percentage at trial for plaintiffs is less than 15%. There is not an increase in the number of cases in this area of law. That is a myth. One more fact that I never hear doctors talk about: In every medical practice liability policy that I have ever seen, there is a clause which states that no case can be settled without the accused doctors approval. On the one hand the doctors are blaming the high settlements for this crisis and on the other hand they quietly agree to them. Seems a little disingenuous to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 "Our new Governor was an evil trial lawyer before he was elected. And yes, a good friend of mine." - Dustbowl Are you referring to N.J.? Get a load of this incendiary comment, quoted in the Bergen Record: "Several physicians said they were particularly offended by televised comments from one of the governor's top aides suggesting that the doctors would "close their practices on Monday, demonstrate in Trenton on Tuesday, and be back on the golf course on Wednesday." Doctors Clamor for ReFURms I have refrained from referring to him as Governor McGreedy, as is my wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiddMarket Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 PI lawyers are on the run right now. Polling data by MAG shows overwhelming public support for malpractice tort reform here in GA, and GWB wouldn't have put it up for grabs if he didn't think he could get it passed. Say what you want, he's a sharp politician- the Democrats learned that during the last Congressional election cycle. Some doctors aren't willing to put the facts of an alleged medical malpractice case in the hands of a jury. As I explained before, many jurors will award money to a sick or injured person regardless of the cause simply because "there but for the Grace of God goes I". The laws are making it more and more difficult to successfully litigate a malpractice case. And they've only just begun. As for the non-economic damage caps..."First the camel sticks his nose into the tent......." We have to start somewhere. The next phase of legislation is likely to be the percentage of the settlement received by the attorney. We're working on that one too right here in GA on many angles. Interesting times we live in, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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