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B4 The Bell Frieday May 28

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#346 brian4


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Posted 01 June 2004 - 12:08 AM

Kernel you are making an assumption that it will catch up with shrub one I agree with. What is beyond belief is that Lugar, Warner, McCain et al would sit and watch- Shrub trumps WaterGate-unless and until the Boyz tell the truth-Will they???l ;)


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Posted 01 June 2004 - 12:15 AM

Kernel you are making an assumption that it will catch up with shrub one I agree with. What is beyond belief is that Lugar, Warner, McCain et al would sit and watch- Shrub trumps WaterGate-unless and until the Boyz tell the truth-Will they???l ;)

For every young kid that comes back dead, three or four are coming back missing an arm or a leg, or even part of their brain. The process might be slow, but yes, it will catch up with the bushman. There is nothing romantic about dead kids and broken bodies and no matter how much the right wingnuts wave the flag, the public will stop buying the bullshit.

#348 Short'em High

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 12:42 AM

From what is going on in Saudi this morning, one can readily assume the "Target" by the terrorists is Oil and the aim is to drive the price to the moon.  By constantly attacking the producing countries in the Gulf they de stabilize the western economies and that is their goal.  I would not be surprised to see this strategy spread to Kuwait, Quatar and other gulf states.  What a freaking, unmanageable mess has been created by Shrub and Tony's excellent adventure!

Yes. If one looks at the origins of the ME strategy from Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld,
it is tied back to the think tank activity at places like New American Century.

What I believe they concluded is that the rising risk of instablity in the region
was going to disrupt oil supplies to the industrialized nations and cause grave
economic problems and ultimately hurt the US. There plan was to use Iraq as
a staging ground and base to project power and stability in the region.
Unfortunately, this was a hideously flawed premise.

The war was proposed before Bush got into office. 911 was the perfect excuse
to use as motivation and justification. However, the administration knew they
had to "sell" the war so they searched for the most marketable reason to use
on the American public. WMD ended being the one that stuck (the most fear based).
Of course, it was toally bogus and the illegal OSP set up by Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz
and Cheney fed Bush and adminstration officials a healthy diet of bogus information to convince them that WMD were in Iraq and it was a slam dunk.
Even the honorable man and diplomat, Colin Powell, was used as a pawn to
peddle the bogus information to the UN. Sad, very sad.

I vividly remember being overseas in the Fall of 2002 and having my colleague
ask me if the US was going to war in Iraq. I said yes, but not yet. The administration
had to promote and sell the war to the public, in order to prep them for going in
in 2003. I hated being right about that.

It seems that think tanks objectives have totally inverted on them and that their
actions have caused a worsening stability problem at huge expense to the US
tax payer and US reputation. I fear this whole venture may go down as one of
the biggest boondoggles in history.

The Unilateral Utopians are dangerous and the media has probably turned on them.


#349 beardrech


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Posted 01 June 2004 - 01:10 AM

Beardrech, I cringe at the very sound of Leo Strauss's name. The man, like James Jesus Angletonof the CIA, was mired in the concept that "everything in politics is deception". He ignored the fact that sometimes things are just as they seem, and that there is actually some good in humanity. His search for a hidden meaning, and the hidden, in general, translated directly into the WMD fiasco in the Middle EAst. He had the bleakest and most blinkered view of humanity--just what you want in a professor at a prestigious university.

What on earth was it about prewar Germany that caused such an atrocious world view, producing men like Hitler and Strauss? Strauss's doctrines are replete with ideas of superiority that reject any moral boundaries. Sickening stuff. Everyone should familiarize themselves with his work, because it has formed the ideologies of many in the current administration. What we revile, they aspire to.

Rule One: Deception

"It's hardly surprising then why Strauss is so popular in an administration obsessed with secrecy, especially when it comes to matters of foreign policy. Not only did Strauss have few qualms about using deception in politics, he saw it as a necessity. While professing deep respect for American democracy, Strauss believed that societies should be hierarchical divided between an elite who should lead, and the masses who should follow. But unlike fellow elitists like Plato, he was less concerned with the moral character of these leaders. According to Shadia Drury, who teaches politics at the University of Calgary, Strauss believed that "those who are fit to rule are those who realize there is no morality and that there is only one natural right the right of the superior to rule over the inferior."


I respect your moral indignation very much; you have the political passion that energises and sustains nation states;especially in dark times--

However,difficult as it is please try to see situation as Strauss saw it--A student of Heidigger,perhaps one of the three greatest minds in 20th century philosophy ---he saw him becoming theRector of Freiberg and keeping his Jewish mentor,Husserl from using the library during the last year of his life; and the momentary conversion leading Heidigger into articulating Hitlerian swill before he realised too late what he was in for--

He saw an entire nation formerly the richest in European intellectual and scientific dynamism become his personal enemy and would be exterminator--loud protestations of liberal freedom by people who became bestialised--and whose political ethic can only be nominalized as an advanced form of Brutalitarianism--

As a jew he saw the depletion of Christian morality rapidly depleted under the bombaardment of the historicists whose replacing ideology turned our to be a boxcar loaded with murderous horseshit--

And when the horstwessel song made the Nazi hit parade he knew it was time to hightail it out of town-

He has a deadly quarrel not with idealism and individualism as you feel it but as he perceived it becoming in the twentieth century---enunciated and bellowed but built on foundation of sand

Perhaps he did become a paranoidal maniac --although i didn't think so, but even if he did his deep going suspicion of mankind was warranted--

One final note: one of his students Jerome Boime wrote an essay in which he communicated the notion of the political fraternity--in it he came to the conclusion tha MORAL communities are by definition fighting and ultimately warring communities---Why ? Because their repective standards are ,in each others eyes,LOATHSOME ANDworthy of being annihilated and eventually weakened governments are taken over by murderous zealots who have to be taken out---

Finally I do not disagree with a single thing you've quoted or said--
beardrech :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :cry: :cry: :cry:

p.s wonmog; would you believe that i heard Studs Turkle(your avatar) on the radio almost 60 years ago when he ran a program called Wax museum---he played Operas-my dad listening-on Sunday night and interpreted them as if he were a Chivago gangster with critical insight--I wonder if there are any tapes remaining???

I believe that humanity is subject to ideas the way that a field of wheat is subject to a strong wind. The 1st half of the 20th century wasn't a pretty time for most of our crop, with entire traditions of thought reaching their final expressions ad absurdum. What began as existential liberation in the hands of characters such as Kierkegaard and Schopenhauer wound up as group madness dividing families and the entire globe. Those winds are real- how else to explain the tide of ideas, even flukes like the conception of calculus simultaneously the same year in different countries? I suppose that any idea can be justified- but at some point you have to forget the pyramid of premises and just look in from outside objectively and say, "this is whack". Why they didn't in Germany at that time is beyond me, just like all the crazy shit today.

Your trope "pyramid of premises" is so apt;the pharaonic overtones of the "pyramids" conjoined with the begginings of Logic, premises, charecterises the modern age:enormous intellectual power but morally speaking so unwieldy that by the time someone has logically deduced whether i'm worth saving and throws me a lifebouy I've drowned--

Have you seen the advertisement showing a group of business people sitting around a luncheon table when of a sudden one of them begins choking on a piece of steak--immediately a discussion ensues with everyone pointing their forks with clinical accuracy and assesing how close the gagger is to choking to death --But no action is taken towards saving him--

And then astranger at the next table leaps up and gives him the Heimlich maneuver outpopping the suffocating piece of meat

Excluding the happy ending this is as good an illustration of youur "pyramid of premises " as can be gotten

beardrech--- :ph34r: :ph34r: :cry: Never ask a hero why he did what he did --he just did it and dont bully him into creating false reasons just so his miraculous behaviour can be explained in a manner just to satisfy ones sense of logic---Its theological more than merely logical

#350 Hypertiger


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Posted 01 June 2004 - 01:30 AM

Posted Image

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There was quite a topping process before cave in...9-11 sure was a good cover/scapegoat...for the collapse in debt inflationary growth...

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And Manufacturing...

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Former CIA asset Osama must of been a genius right? what timing...

Keep hitting the snooze button...
"We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money (at the request of the consumer) we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system.... It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon." --Robert H. Hemphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank,1938...

#351 IrishJew


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Posted 01 June 2004 - 02:11 AM


you bro, are an artist.





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Posted 01 June 2004 - 03:20 AM

Incontinuity In Film


Click Here

#353 The brown one

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 04:46 AM

Afraid you are right,HT.
When in doubt--follow the money(debt)!

#354 The brown one

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 04:50 AM

Have we become the new "Krazies" in todays society,whilst we have spent the weekend talking about the EOTWAWKI and how the planet is going to hell in a hand basket,what has everyone else been doing?


Most people dont give a root about what we think or know,most people are totally pig ignorant about any of the stuff we discuss,most people are more interested in what sort of wine should they take to the BBQ.

Not one person I spoke to over the weekend mentioned anything even remotely important,not one...all frivilous shit,all the time.


In the immortal words of Marie Antoinette "Let them eat cak"

#355 The brown one

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Posted 01 June 2004 - 05:05 AM

So whats with all the naval exercises?

"in times of tight budgets and high fuel prices, it seems a bit odd that so many countries are putting to sea for the next month"

Check out the section on "snowball"

I'm thinking (speculating) in a different direction - like arctic ice sheet movement - not mentioned in the article - sea level rise.

Anybody know what's the story on this George Ure/Urban Survival?

Is the site a leg-pulling exercise?

Don't think so,he's been at it for some time.I'm sure he is very genuine in what he believes and publishes--but it all seems a bit paranoid to me--well a lot actually!

If the linked site about the "snowball" is accurate,then that lump of heavenly crap is going to get rather close--2 million km is not far away!


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