Pre-Erection Weakend

[pistolpapa]

Comments on two of PistolPoopa's posts:

 

1) In Russia, people tend to be extremely generous and share what they have -- because they've had hard times for so long. In this country, the highest percentage donation to charity comes from -- the poorest 10% of the population.

 

2) PP, do you still think the sunspot activity might cause people to be a little testy?    

2) It sure seems that intense solar activity can intensify emotions both up or down. There are some now that are saying that it also works the other way, that our emotional attitudes can influence sun activity. Far fetched? Only, God almighty knows.

 

 

1) No one wants to see the fact that poor people can be happy. The poor people in Mexico are the happiest people I've ever met. And they will literally give you the shirt off their back.

 

 

"Take it from me it's a mystery, where all my money goes,

How I make it week to week, only God almighty knows"

-Jerry Jeff Walker

[brian4]

I would think China has it about right! I have posted before about after WW2 the Vets would come to our door offering to wash windows, rake leaves or curt lawns for a meal. No one left our home hungry as Papa has stated the same will happen again and it should. Mars is right most of todays populace can't find their ass with either hand. If you can't wire in a light or unclog a drain and know what tools are other than your own you are doomed.

[brian4]

I've also posted in the past about how my Family would sit around the table in WW2 and swap ration coupons, fresh fruit or vegetables for butter or bread for meat or vice-versa. Gas rationing was terrible, you biked or walked and saved the coupons for emergencies-but you know what it worked and we all survived.

[wonmug]

Edit- see that Plunger posted above with much the same content, more concise- skip below if yr eyes are turning to cinders as mine are?

some thoughts regarding the dust-up this weekend-

My primary concern, selfishly, is my own mental equilibrium and secondarily, the continued well-being & existence of this outstanding board. As with Butterfield, it occupies a special place in my life. It is my main gateway to economic news, theory, & opinion- that?s what brought me here; there is simply no other place with the concentration of brains, writing talent, and breadth of information, an all-you-can-eat buffet that sometimes results in info-indigestion. Beyond that, there is the equally rich political/ social debate in this particular forum.

 

Occasionally a thread will come up that upsets me, either by factual errors or by holding forth an opinion or POV that conflicts w/ mine, & I want to jump in to make a correction or disagree with supporting evidence- and quite frequently stay silent. Sometimes others will jump in with contributions sufficiently similar to my own POV & to save myself time/ avoid being repetitious, I don?t post. Or I have my browser set to reload while I?m off doing multiple other tasks & only catch up much later; ie, my ?puter is onthread, I?m not? Often though, I simply elect not to pipe up because I don?t have at hand a solid reference on the web, reference to history, or a good memory thereof, and rarely have time to hunt one down.

 

For me, it can take many hours to come back w/ something that meets my standards for veracity. Some issues are clear enough in my mind that I don?t feel I need to elaborately cite common knowledge- the case of Holocaust denial comes to mind, or the 2000 Florida vote suppression. But the Waco event is one where my memory isn?t fresh by recent reading, and as I recall, it wasn?t crystal clear to me, as of a year or two ago, who did what in support of all the conflicting agendas- so rather than post a phoned-in contribution that would likely have only added to the murkiness & heat, I passed. Note that I don?t dispute that child abuse took place, whether by this cultures standards or by some others; but I could see this discussion easily turning into a left/ right melee in which verifiable evidence is useless- so I go away, do my laundry, search for lost keys?.. thereby avoiding frustration/ emotional triggers- of crucial importance to me, being an unmedicated bi-polar.

 

Doc, I think you make a perfectly valid distinction between liberals of principle and just idiots who have logo?d themselves as such, and the term of course is employed to demonize. Some even apply the term to Democrats! </Socratic irony> A lot of labeling & stereotyping goes on in politics, whether maliciously or expediently. I don?t think the term was here being used pejoratively, just perhaps over-loosely in a casual/ conversational context.

 

Mainly I just want to reiterate a fond wish that folks posting here could be a bit more careful with language and of the limitations of the medium- the time lags, the lack of feedback cues one unconsciously depends on to gauge anothers state of mind. Despite our broadly sharing a common POV on financial matters, we really are diverse in political/ social values- for me that means treading lightly & using a much more cautious form of discourse than I would face-to-face. I don?t see any practical way to impose or codify civility, & wouldn?t want to see this forum sink into sedate boredom either? just think a bit more self-awareness would help.

 

Along that line, I get dismayed by the way the term fascism is casually bandied about, everywhere. If one means to lash out at another, how about using some more appropriate term such as ?asshat? or ?vile/ evil?? Can?t see how Docs policies here can be tagged with the F-word. While I don?t think it has to be restricted to referring to the Third Reich or Mussolini, as I can see fascist inclinations and actions on the rise now, it seems to be used too often to refer to any action a writer sees as restrictive, oppressive, overbearing? thus diluting the useful political meaning. There is an excellent, thorough essay probing the terms meaning at David Neiwerts blog, Orcinus (PDF) Laurence W. Britt has a series of essays also.

 

 

There have to be some restraints to Wild-West style argument, or this place could degenerate into a repellant cock-fighting pit for those who enjoy that. When discussions have threatened to veer off that way, almost always the participants have pulled back by themselves, or moderators have taken necessary action. Those actions are essential for the survival of this site; sometimes, people will in time find ways to get across a point more effectively after a cool-down- sometimes not- in which case, the times & peoples mind-set just aren?t ripe yet. Witness the current status of issues surrounding the ?Nam war- buried in denial, ignorance, bitter ideological vendettas, etc, etc. Little steps, I guess.

Sorry if this comes across as an over-nuanced lecture, as one of the current candidates is often accused of delivering.

Obsessive pursuit of harmony is my sickness I admit.

 

Heh- just saw this,posted upthread by Stanley?

I learn many English words from this vivid boat, ..

 

Today, I got another one .... Heeheehe, Moderator 

 

A substance (as graphite, deuterium in heavy water, or beryllium) used for slowing down neutrons in a nuclear reactor

Glad ta know ya, fellow neutrons...

[PandaBear]

Personally, I'm a believer in government with the consent of the governed -- and the Taiwanese are not consenting.

 

I'd like to see a little intellectual consistency here -- if you're for the right of self-determination, and you say that maybe Western-style democracy isn't for everyone, then how can you turn around and say that a large population that has been living as an independent country for 50 years (with at least lip service to democracy) should now be sold out to be governed by a country for which they have nothing but enmity? and who will give them NO democracy?

Good point, Drano.

 

Before the 50 years you referred to, Taiwan was under Japanese occupation from 1895 to 1945.

 

This is another point that separates Taiwan from mainland China. Japan is resented in mainland China for its atrocities in Nanjing and elsewhere. But on Taiwan, the older generation who actually lived under Japanese rule has very positive feelings toward the Japanese.

 

The native Taiwanese regard the former Japanese colonial government as less corrupt than either the mainland Chinese communists, or the brutal Kuomintang who showed up in 1949. The Kuomintang engaged in their own massacres to pacify Taiwan (notably the notorious Feb 28th massacre, discussion of which was taboo for 40 years).

 

Having been separated from China for 100 years, having its own dialect (Mandarin was imposed only after the Kuomingtang showed up), and having entered the free world trading system 30 years before mainland China did, Taiwan certainly can make a credible case for independence.

 

Keep in mind that democracy is still a recent phenomenon in Taiwan. For much of the post-civil war period in Taiwan, the mainlander-dominated Kuomintang (Nationalist) party ruled under martial law. Only after Chiang Kai-shek's death did his son lift martial law.

 

It is also important to realize that the situation has many subtle nuances which may not be evident to those without a background in the history. The local population are mostly descended from mainland settlers from Fujian province of the Hokkien ethnic subgoup of the Han. They speak a dialect nearly identical to the Fujian dialect and migrated there mostly in the late Ming/early Qing dynasty (1600s). Culturally they are as Chinese as any other province in China, although the pro-independence movement has been trying to deny this through historical revisionism.

 

The pro-Japanese sentiment expressed by some Taiwanese is particularly galling to hardline mainlanders, whose stated aim is to reclaim all the territories lost to foreign invaders.

 

It is interesting to note that there is still significant pro-Chinese sentiment in the population, represented by the pan-Blues, the opposition parties who control the legislature. This leads to speculation that the Chinese could perform a "decapitation" attack to kill the leaders of the Taiwan independence movement, then install pro-China local leaders and withdraw.

 

The recent reelection of Chen Shui-bian was notable for a probable faked "assassination attempt" on Chen during the last days of campaigning. This allowed Chen, the incumbent, to disenfranchise the military and security forces by putting them on alert by presidential order, preventing them from voting. This eliminated 300,000 votes, a number greater than Chen's eventual margin of victory.

 

Chen's pro-independence party, the DPP, is notable for its own corruption. His wife has been accused of having been involved in *gasp* stock market manipulation and trading on inside information.

 

Bottom line, the best outcome is status quo and eventual reunification under terms acceptable to Taiwan's people. This could take 100 years or more. China is not in a hurry. 100 years is not a long time in Chinese history. They will not invade unless Taiwan unilaterally declares independence. If that happens, China will invade - the hardliners would insist. Powell's statements make such a unilateral declaration less likely, and actually reduce the potential for conflict across the straits.

[pistolpapa]

I've also posted in the past about how my Family would sit around the table in WW2 and swap ration coupons, fresh fruit or vegetables for butter or bread for meat or vice-versa.? Gas rationing was terrible, you biked or walked and saved the coupons for emergencies-but you know what it worked and we all survived.

That's what I'm talkin' about, Brian.

 

I remember walkin' into Patterson California., a poor farming community, with one dollar in my pocket.

 

I got a job drivin' a tractor on a apricot ranch. I figured I could just live on apricots until I got paid.

 

Well the rancher took me in and fed me three meals a day at the table with his family no less, and gave me a room.

 

His brother would buy beer and we would go out and raise hell at night.

 

A Mexican bracero worker would take me to his home for great REAL Mexican meals and then we'd go out hitting all the funky bars in town.

 

At the end of harvest, I picked up my paycheck and I still had that damn one dollar in my pocket.

 

Hard times do not have to be hard at all.

 

If you don't sweat it, something just comes in and works things out.

[wndysrf]

Brian4 and pistolpapa:

 

Great stories.....

 

Needless to say, my "MTV Generation" has no clue about real hardship..........

 

Rude awakening is near..............

[GregFokker]

I've also posted in the past about how my Family would sit around the table in WW2 and swap ration coupons, fresh fruit or vegetables for butter or bread for meat or vice-versa.  Gas rationing was terrible, you biked or walked and saved the coupons for emergencies-but you know what it worked and we all survived.

That's what I'm talkin' about, Brian.

 

I remember walkin' into Patterson California., a poor farming community, with one dollar in my pocket.

 

I got a job drivin' a tractor on a apricot ranch. I figured I could just live on apricots until I got paid.

 

Well the rancher took me in and fed me three meals a day at the table with his family no less, and gave me a room.

 

His brother would buy beer and we would go out and raise hell at night.

 

A Mexican bracero worker would take me to his home for great REAL Mexican meals and then we'd go out hitting all the funky bars in town.

 

At the end of harvest, I picked up my paycheck and I still had that damn one dollar in my pocket.

 

Hard times do not have to be hard at all.

 

If you don't sweat it, something just comes in and works things out.

Pistolpapa man, I needed that. Thanks.

[jstrack]

All the MTV generation needs is a skate board, IPOD and video games....LOL.....

 

All seriousness, its going to be a very rough adjustment period.

[jstrack]

WASHINGTON - The United States on Sunday warned US citizens living in or passing through the Nordic and Baltic states of possible imminent terrorist attacks in crowded public places in those countries.

[dozer]

panda, thanks for that excellent inside picture of Taiwan.

 

 

pistol, b4, those are great stories, and I have some too (family of 11), but I think I was misunderstood....again :P

 

I never said anything against -sharing-. And if you look at what you guys said, you are talking about sharing what IS YOURS. To me, everything you've said IS a validation of the concept of property. Two seperate concepts here, one (sharing) layered on TOP of the other (ownership of one's work, time, ground, etc).

 

Pistol, all I was saying was that -forced- sharing arrangements, where all are decreed "equal" -never- last...because nobody is equal.

 

Everyone on the planet is different from another. A woman who weaves twelve hrs/day instead of six IS going to feel she should get more because she worked more. And imho, she certainly should.

 

During harvest, I too might welcome some extra hands for a while, and be glad to share my table for a while...but it's MY table to share; and the sanctity of that concept, to me, is what psychological comfort/security with one's place in the world is all about.

 

A place to call one's own...a place one can stand and say "keep out" when one feels a need for solitude or privacy. These are key psychological needs...very basic and inherent within us. To set up a system which tries to forcibly subdue them is to set up a system doomed to failure, imho.

 

Hope that's a bit clearer...

[pistolpapa]

Brian4 and pistolpapa:

 

Great stories.....

 

Needless to say, my "MTV Generation" has no clue about real hardship..........

 

Rude awakening is near..............

I got a ton of them stories.

 

With the right attitude, the" rude awakening" could be an adventure.

 

Like when I was drivin' my 18 wheeler over a pass in Montana with ice all over the road.

 

I was scared shitless.

 

Then comes this kid on the CB comin' up the other side of the mountain sayin',

 

"Man this is great. Whee! I hope theres ice on the other side of the hill!"

 

I wasn't scared anymore.

[Guest]

I've also posted in the past about how my Family would sit around the table in WW2 and swap ration coupons, fresh fruit or vegetables for butter or bread for meat or vice-versa. Gas rationing was terrible, you biked or walked and saved the coupons for emergencies-but you know what it worked and we all survived.

Professor John Kenneth Galbraith grew up on a farm in Canada. He was instrumental in forming and administering the Ration Board in the Roosevelt administration and later on the bomb-damage assessment teams in Europe.

 

His son is an economics professor at University of Texas.

 

Great author writing without any BS.....essentially calling a spade a spade.

[agent.5]

WASHINGTON - The United States on Sunday warned US citizens living in or passing through the Nordic and Baltic states of possible imminent terrorist attacks in crowded public places in those countries.

Norway maybe?

 

Deputy leader of the Parliamentary Energy Commitee, Hallgeir Langeland (Socialist Left), now proposes that oil should be traded in Euro, rather than in US dollars.

 

http://www.norwaypost.no/content.asp?clust...467&folder_id=6

[brian4]

I'm taking my wretched Cold to bed now- be nice-you have no idea how close a good idea came to armageddon today!