Weak-end thread June 10-13th.

[thesun]

European plane maker Airbus won a Chinese order on Friday for 20 of its A330-300 wide-body jets, its second large deal with a Chinese carrier in as many months.

 

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/040611/transport_airbus_china_2.html

 

So much for BA getting this order.

 

Will BA keep trading up??

[Guest]

War Crimes...continued....

 

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/061104B.shtml

 

Calif. Guardsman Alleges Abuse in Iraq

????The Associated Press

 

????Wednesday 09 June 2004

 

 

????San Francisco - A California National Guardsman says three fellow soldiers brazenly abused detainees during interrogation sessions in an Iraqi police station, threatening them with guns, sticking lit cigarettes in their ears and choking them until they collapsed.

 

????Sgt. Greg Ford said he repeatedly had to revive prisoners who had passed out, and once saw a soldier stand on the back of a handcuffed detainee's neck and pull his arms until they popped out of their sockets.

 

????"I had to intervene because they couldn't keep their hands off of them," said Ford, part of a four-member team from the 223rd Military Intelligence Battalion that questioned detainees last year in Samarra, north of Baghdad. He said the abuse took place from April to June.

 

????Ford's commanding officers deny any abuse occurred, and say investigations within their battalion and by the Army's Criminal Investigation Division determined they had done nothing wrong.

 

????"All the allegations were found to be untrue, totally unfounded and in a number of cases completely fabricated," said the battalion commander, Lt. Col. Drew Ryan.

 

????Ford's allegations are being further investigated by the CID, which would not comment on the probe.

 

????Ford told The Associated Press that when he reported the problems last June to his commanding officers, they pressured him to drop his claims.

[DrStool]

First, we do not post material from other sites without a link. You MUST identify the source and link to it.

 

Second.

 

The reposted material is clearly bullcrap.

 

Trying to get back at me for criticizing your permitting of the anti-Reagan diatribe a few weeks back, eh (complete with Alzheimers put-downs)? And it was so timely.

 

My three-year subscription has been cancelled. I'll join Chibear and the others on the alternative site.

If you have been around here for 3 years, then you know the rules. I do not allow reposting of third party material without linking to the source. And yes, I thought that the reposted material was complete baloney. I guess we will find out this weekend whether I am correct in that judgment.

 

What that has to do with this thing coming out of left field about Reagan, or my politics, I have no idea. You are a new poster. I do not know who you are, or what your politics are. I do not know what you have posted previously. There are plenty of people on these boards who hold political beliefs diametrically opposed to mine, and even some who I think are full of baloney, and they never get a peep out of me. In fact, I consider all of them my friends, because they have done nothing but passionately espouse their philosophies in a (generally)thoughtful way. That's good content, and it's good for the website, and THAT is what I care about.

 

I judge people not by the color of their stools, but by the character of their content.

 

I don't "get back at people." Yes, I lose my temper at times. But when I disagree with people, I argue the issue, right here on the board. I never personalize it. I don't engage in petulant, childish venedettas, or acts of revenge.

 

One thing I have sadly learned is that even though such behavior seems really stupid too me, there are plenty of people who engage in it. I am not going to lie and say this stuff doesn't hurt me. It does. But as the saying goes, I pick myself up, dust myself off, and keep on keeping on. For every person who throws a brick through Capitalstool's front window, there are two who come along to help rebuild and grow. For that I am grateful and humbled.

 

There is another incident that has really been bothering me that I want to share with all of you. It was an incident where an individual attemted to "get back" at me, and victimized every single one of you, and the thousands of people who come to this website every day.

 

You may wonder why the "Delete" button is no longer available. Some weeks ago, a former moderator complained to me, feeling that I was allowing attacks on people's religious beliefs. He had previously deleted some posts, which I had not seen, having something to do with Thomas Jefferson's beliefs. As he described the posts to me in a PM, I thought they were relatively innocuous. It seemed like more of a personality conflict between him and the other poster. I wrote back to him that I supported his decision, but that he should give people as much leeway as possible in expressing their views, to err on the side of leniency, especially with someone toward whom he might have some feelings of animosity. This is what I believe.

 

He sent back what was, in essence, a letter of resignation, stating that he could not participate in a website where the proprietor allowed attacks on a person's religion.

 

Whoa, I thought. That's nuts. Everyone knows damn well what my stand is on that.

 

The next thing I know, this individual had deleted not only all of his posts, but the threads he had originated which included the posts of others. This vile act violated all of us. It was, in essence, Grand Theft, because once content is posted on this board, it becomes the property of Capitalstool.com, and thereby of all of you.

 

This was the third time a moderator I had chosen had done something of this nature. Other poeple who I thought of as friends, upon having a difference of opinion with me, have used that as an excuse to engage in other forms of behavior intended to inflict harm and injury on Capitalstool. To me, this kind of behavior is completely senseless. I just don't get it. I suppose there is still a part of me that has this childlike desire to trust people, to believe in the innate goodness of humanity. So be it. I suppose that there is a part of me that is still a damn fool.

 

Unfortunately, because some people used the delete key as a weapon of vindictiveness, I decided to make it impossible for anyone, moderator or member, to delete posts. Sure, you can still edit your posts, but removing dozens of posts that way would be a pain. I would hate to have to remove the edit function, but if some misguided person should abuse it, then I will do what is necessary to protect everyone's right to view all of the content of your boards.

 

Whether it be something as simple as publicly announcing that you are quitting the site and cancelling your subscription, or as destructive as deleting hundreds of posts, these kinds of acts are examples in microcosm of the kinds of vicious petulance that make the world such a hostile place.

 

I'm not angry at these people. But I am sad that some of them take it upon themselves to attempt to victimize everyone by removing themselves from participating in the discourse here, for no good reason, or especially by removing content. This is a case of victimizing your friends when the person you want to lash out against is me. Fine, hit me. I can take it. But to punish everyone else in the process is just selfish, petulant, and vindictive.

 

Thank God that the vast majority of us are mature thinking individuals who know how to behave civilly, even though we may often passionately disagree.

 

I thank all of you for that, and for your support of Capitalstool.

 

End of rant. My apologies.

 

God Save the Stool!

[Guest]

Out of Africa:

 

Violence 'may force Shell to quit Nigeria'

By Michael Peel in Lagos

Published: June 10 2004 20:28 | Last Updated: June 11 2004 1:07

 

Royal Dutch/Shell, the oil multinational, could be forced to pull out of onshore production in Nigeria by 2008 because of violence in the oil-producing Niger Delta region, according to a confidential report commissioned by the company.

 

Nigeria is one of Shell's most important countries of operation, accounting for about 10 per cent of worldwide production as well of some of the company's most promising future fields.

 

Shell did not agree with the authors' conclusions that it would have to withdraw in five years, but admitted conflict in the Delta had "the potential to get worse" if no action were taken. "Government and local communities must take the lead in ending conflict. But we are also determined to help."

 

http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?p...p=1012571727088

Boy, it sure would be handy if there were, for example, a Carrier Group, steaming toward Africa on "exercises" that could be called upon to help put down this violence in Niger...by invitation of course.

 

Shell's interests seemingly have become our own, and now the Earth Police must be utilized in every corner of the globe to protect the flow of oil.

 

Any more questions about why our ships are all out to sea?

[Hiding Bear]

An interesting technical discussion of the Euro, hosted by Oyster and Bonchev, can be found here:

 

http://www.capitalstool.com/forums/index.p...t=0#entry305706

[Guest]

Good morning. My name is Paul Rieckhoff. I am addressing you this morning as a US citizen and veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom. I served with the US Army in Iraq for 10 months, concluding in February, 2004.

 

I'm giving this address because I have an agenda, and my agenda is this: I want my fellow soldiers to come home safely, and I want a better future for the people of Iraq. I also want people to know the truth.

 

http://scoop.agonist.org/story/2004/6/11/4323/48186

[Guest]

Bill Moyers: "This is the first time in my 32 years of public broadcasting that (the Corporation for Public Broadcasting) has ordered up programs for ideological instead of journalistic reasons." Strong words.

 

It gets worse. The most recent Bush appointment to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting board is a former chair of GOPAC, the Gingrich political action committee. Remember the "Contract With America"? Well, get ready for Gingrich aide Gay Hart Gaines' "contract on PBS."

 

http://fightingbob.com/article.cfm?articleID=226

Thanks for the link on PBS.

 

Indeed, almost all patterns of complete control of information are and have been

present for some time. However, the intensity increases as election approaches.

 

Now that is NEWS that no one will read nor view through the mass-media.

The same techinques were used inside Vietnam to prop-up the puppet gubbmit.

 

Unfortunately, we live in a dysfunctional world with 'educated' fools.

[Optical Rectitus]

Bill Moyers is not an idealog? (SP) ROFL

[Free Speedy Gonzales!]

The same techinques were used inside Vietnam to prop-up the puppet gubbmit.

 

Unfortunately, we live in a dysfunctional world with 'educated' fools.

This type of agitprop will meet with the same great succes as it did in Vietnam (and the late Soviet Union.)

 

"Charlie" couldn't care less how smart and well McNamara was, he wanted the US occupiers out of his/her country and was prepared to die to acheive his/her goal.

 

On another note, the disinformation on the economy will lead to mis-investment and mis-allocation of capital which will only make the situation worse. In an extreme case this leads to the Soviet Union.

 

History does appear to rhyme.

[Guest]

http://www.antiwar.com/sperry/?articleid=2794

 

Tricky Dick Cheney

 

by Paul Sperry

 

 

Whopper No. 1: On Oct. 10, 2003, Cheney told neocons at the Heritage Foundation that Saddam Hussein "had an established relationship with al-Qaeda," a charge contradicted by U.S. intelligence briefings Cheney has received.

 

Whopper No. 2: In the same speech, Cheney, doing his best impression of Baghdad Bob, still maintained Iraq was a weapons-of-mass-destruction powerhouse.

 

Whopper No. 3: A month earlier, Cheney claimed they had found conclusive proof of an illicit Iraqi bioweapons program in the form of two old trailers rusting in the desert.

 

In a Sept. 14, 2003, interview with NBC's Tim Russert, he called them "mobile biological facilities" that can be used to produce deadly germ agents for terrorist attack.

 

Whopper No. 4: Cheney in the same NBC interview claimed the pair of trailers discovered in Iraq could have been used to make smallpox.

 

Whopper No. 5: Further trying to justify the Iraq war, the vice president brazenly tried in the same interview to resuscitate the fable that hijacking ringleader Mohamed Atta met in Prague with Iraqi intelligence before 9-11.

 

Whopper No. 6: Cheney has suggested Iraq sponsored 9-11, or at least harbored and supported the terrorists who attacked America.

 

Whopper No. 7: "I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven't had now for over three years," Cheney also told Russert last fall.

 

Whopper No. 8: Russert asked Cheney if he had any role in the secret $7 billion contract the Pentagon gave Halliburton before the war to rebuild and run Iraq's oil system and even distribute its energy products outside Iraq. "Were you involved in any way in the awarding of those contracts?"

 

"Of course not, Tim," Cheney indignantly replied.

 

Whopper No. 9: Russert: "Why is there no bidding?"

 

Cheney: "I have no idea."

 

Demand the vice president explain himself in a formal press conference. Call his office at (202) 456-7124, and let his staff know he can no longer duck accountability. Don't take no for an answer. Remember: he works for you, the people, and his arrogant lies are robbing you of your tax dollars and the lives of our nation's sons and daughters.

[Guest]

Use of Dogs to Scare Prisoners Was Authorized

Military Intelligence Personnel Were Involved, Handlers Say

 

By Josh White and Scott Higham

Washington Post Staff Writers

Friday, June 11, 2004; Page A01

 

 

U.S. intelligence personnel ordered military dog handlers at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq to use unmuzzled dogs to frighten and intimidate detainees during interrogations late last year, a plan approved by the highest-ranking military intelligence officer at the facility, according to sworn statements the handlers provided to military investigators.

 

A military intelligence interrogator also told investigators that two dog handlers at Abu Ghraib were "having a contest" to see how many detainees they could make involuntarily urinate out of fear of the dogs, according to the previously undisclosed statements obtained by The Washington Post.

 

The statements by the dog handlers provide the clearest indication yet that military intelligence personnel were deeply involved in tactics later deemed by a U.S. Army general to be "sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses."

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004Jun10.html

[Guest]

Some weeks ago, a former moderator complained to me, feeling that I was allowing attacks on people's religious beliefs.? He had previously deleted some posts, which I had not seen, having something to do with Thomas Jefferson's beliefs.

In a way I?m glad you brought this up Doc because now I think about it I am still seething at the way the ex-moderator behaved.

 

I was the poster falsely accused ? rather smeared ? for allegedly attacking Jefferson?s religious views. In reality I did no such thing, but merely pointed out that many ? but implicitly not myself ? might find Jeffreson?s views somewhat more than quaint were they aware that he took the extraordinary step of publishing and editing a revised version of the bible with all the magic bits about Jesus taken out.

 

When I learnt this about Jefferson, my estimation of him actually went up quite considerably. Without wishing to get into any kind of theological debate, it is patently obvious from genuine, un-doctored historical sources like the Nag Hammadi library that the material selected for inclusion in the New Testament was not only seriously sexed up but also heavily screened to impart a highly dubious interpretation of the teachings of Christ around the 4th century AD. I say hats off to the man for having the courage of his convictions to speak the truth in the face of what must have been and no doubt still remains inevitable condemnation and the wild-eyed charges of blasphemy.

 

On the other hand what I did claim as my personal opinion was that Jefferson?s view expressed in the highly tediously repeated quote plastered all over the place that ?. . .if the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency...the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property? was in all probability formed as a result of unfortunate experiences gleaned during Jefferson?s early career as a land speculator. I believe there were also some question marks surrounding the settlement of his estate after his death that may be pertinent to understanding his views on banking.

 

Glad to have been able to put the record straight.

[Butterfield 8]

RE PBS - Heard from a PBS fundraiser that satellite tv service does not include PBS in its basic service - one needs to pay an extra fee for it. Didn't Rupert Murdoch recently buy out a huge satellite service?

[PeakOil]

Well written piece on "Bretton Woods Jr".

 

--

 

Moreover, reliance on exports to the US may not be a long-term option for Asia. In a recent lecture in Washington, Larry Summers, the former US treasury secretary, argued that the US has no alternative but to increase its savings rates if it is to extricate itself from "the most serious problem of low national saving, resulting in dependence on foreign capital, and fiscal unsustainability, that we have faced in the last 50 years." His conclusion is that the world can no longer count on the US to be the consumer of first resort, which means in turn that "the growth plans of others that rely on export-led growth will need to be adjusted in the years ahead."

[Guest]

Located one Strike Group.......

 

Strike Group Sails with Reagan

By Journalist 2nd Class Paul Simonds

Navy News Service

June 10, 2004

 

 

ABOARD USS RONALD REAGAN -- The world's newest nuclear-powered aircraft carrier has several groups riding with it during its momentous voyage around the horn from Naval Station Norfolk, Va., to its new homeport of Naval Air Station North Island, San Diego.

 

The USS Ronald Reagan (CVN 76) Strike Group, comprised of Commander, Cruiser Destroyer Group (CCDG) 1 and Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 11, is manned and ready for this historic cruise.

 

Due to the length of the deployment, the air wing, which is normally assigned to the USS Nimitz (CVN 68) Strike Group, embarked only 25 percent of its total strength. Its main purpose while sailing with Ronald Reagan is to complete as many training evolutions as possible.

 

"My priority is to get some great training for some of my younger pilots," said Capt. Jim Greene, commander CVW 11. "The opportunity to look at the back end of a ship and land an airplane is a training opportunity we don't want to miss."

 

CCDG 1 is overseeing all the training exercises, as well as the entire transit to San Diego.

 

"As everyone knows, a major objective of this transit is the inter-fleet transfer of Ronald Reagan from the Atlantic to her new homeport in the Pacific," said Commander Cruiser Destroyer Group ONE, Rear Adm. Robert Moeller. "Along the way, the strike group has a unique opportunity to operate with South American navies."

 

Both CCDG 1 and CVW-11 find it rewarding to be sailing around the horn on the Navy's newest nuclear-powered aircraft carrier.

 

"It is an incredible honor to be the first commander of the Navy's newest Carrier Strike Group," said Moeller. "I'm privileged to have the opportunity to take the group to sea for the transit of South America."

"It's unlikely I'll have the opportunity to observe Ronald Reagan throughout its 50-year lifespan, but I will always keep a close eye on its activities," said Greene.

 

The Navy offers Sailors the opportunity to make history. Today, Ronald Reagan Sailors, and those serving with CVW-11 and CCDG 1, are doing just that. The strike group, as one unit, is ensuring the security of the nation by securely delivering the Navy's newest aircraft carrier to its new homeport in San Diego.