Holding Over The Weak End

[FranciscoTheMan]

bad times in Cockermouth

 

there, I said it.

[Charmin]

WFC probably has a chance to retest 26 if it cue's down from here under the 50 bar.

http://www.StockSharePublishing.com/ChartL..._1258764508.png

[Drano]

I find that incredible and preposterous. The top programs generate millions in revenues. Put 100,000 people in a stadium 8 times a year at an average $25 including the student freebies, then add the megamillions in TV revenues, and godknows how much in merchandise sales.

 

If there are studies that show these programs losing money, I'd like to see them. I Googled college football finances and came up empty handed on the loss side. When a school rakes in $50 million plus per year on football, there's no way they could lose money. Supposedly the football programs at these schools support all the lesser programs.

 

Here's the most recent piece I could find on football revenues.

 

http://birmingham.bizjournals.com/birmingh.../15/daily2.html

 

We're talking major programs here. Certainly the smaller schools could lose money on it. Not being a football power, certainly Minnesota could be one of them. I know Temple, with its attendance of 8-10,000 per game and no TV revenue loses money. Tax supported urban commuter schools with little fan interest should not be subsidizing these wasteful programs, that's for sure. But for schools like Penn State, I don't see any problem at all. That program makes huge money for the university.

 

 

http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2009/11...7d872458831.txt

You may be interested in the famous study that the American Association of University Professors did. Some top business school finance professors looked at the economics of athletic departments in American universities. The finding was that, when all the HIDDEN COSTS were taken into account, athletic programs were a drain on the resources of universities. There are things that are not charged to the athletic program, like groundskeeping, secretarial staff, administrators not in the athletic department who nevertheless spend most or all of their time on athletics, tutors (charged to academic departments), facilities like weight rooms, etc., training tables for athletes in the dining halls (those guys burn a lot of calories), and other items -- for instance, in your example, they were not counting the 11 million in debt service.

 

And very few schools are getting media fees for broadcasting games. Smaller schools aren't getting any $65 a head for seats, either.

 

I have no doubt that some of the huge schools, like the better Big 10 schools, UCLA, USC, etc. are making money on their programs. But those few elite schools that make money are a tiny minority -- most schools lose a lot of money on their programs. I didn't just assume this - I have read the AAUP article and many others which have come to the same conclusion.

 

If Wal-Mart makes a profit, does that mean that every little mom and pop store does too?

 

addendum: Minnesota's new stadium cost 288 million. For 6 games a year. The university just couldn't bring itself to keep using the Metrodome -- students had to take a bus to get there, horrors. In the meantime, they are freezing faculty hiring and increasing class size. I wonder -- is that 288 million computed into the cost of the athletic department? (I admit, some of that is paid for by donations... but not all of it.)

 

This is an area I know something about. Remember that for every large university with broadcast games, there are hundreds of smaller school wanna-be's that are trying to run programs in a way similar to the big boys.

[Drano]

Then, of course, there is the issue of: what do the athletes get out of it?

 

The graduation rate of college athletes is shockingly low. Naive young men from impoverished backgrounds think that athletics will be their gateway to riches. For a few of them, it will be. Most of them, though, end up spending four or five years at a college, receiving free tuition, room and board (and maybe some under the table bennies), killing themselves and wrecking their bodies, and most of them will not have a career in their chosen field. And most of them are not going to walk away with a degree, either, because of the culture that tells them that the only thing classes are for is to keep their eligibility, and the widespread and commonly accepted cheating to keep them elibigle. It would be a lot better for them if they at least spent four or five years as salaried, full-time minor league athletes, with a pension that would eventually kick in, and health and disability insurance during their playing years. Very few college athletes end up as professional players. Instead, they spend their time preparing for a career that at least 99% will never have.

 

It's a disgrace.

[POTUS]

Graduation rates for student-athletes competing in Division I continue to reach all-time highs.

 

There is no question that there are dramatic differences between the various colleges and universities programs.

 

Men's Basketball is generally the "worst" of the sports for poor graduation rates.

 

Link

 

But for every "bad" program you can point to, you can point to a good one.

 

Take Stanford University Athletics, as an example of one of the best, with high performance in many sports, both men's and women's and excellent graduation rates with high academic standards.

 

Of course, Stanford's first ever athletic director went on to become POTUS, so they begin with an advantage.

[DrStool]

You may be interested in the famous study that the American Association of University Professors did. Some top business school finance professors looked at the economics of athletic departments in American universities. The finding was that, when all the HIDDEN COSTS were taken into account, athletic programs were a drain on the resources of universities. There are things that are not charged to the athletic program, like groundskeeping, secretarial staff, administrators not in the athletic department who nevertheless spend most or all of their time on athletics, tutors (charged to academic departments), facilities like weight rooms, etc., training tables for athletes in the dining halls (those guys burn a lot of calories), and other items -- for instance, in your example, they were not counting the 11 million in debt service.

 

And very few schools are getting media fees for broadcasting games. Smaller schools aren't getting any $65 a head for seats, either.

 

I have no doubt that some of the huge schools, like the better Big 10 schools, UCLA, USC, etc. are making money on their programs. But those few elite schools that make money are a tiny minority -- most schools lose a lot of money on their programs. I didn't just assume this - I have read the AAUP article and many others which have come to the same conclusion.

 

If Wal-Mart makes a profit, does that mean that every little mom and pop store does too?

 

addendum: Minnesota's new stadium cost 288 million. For 6 games a year. The university just couldn't bring itself to keep using the Metrodome -- students had to take a bus to get there, horrors. In the meantime, they are freezing faculty hiring and increasing class size. I wonder -- is that 288 million computed into the cost of the athletic department? (I admit, some of that is paid for by donations... but not all of it.)

 

This is an area I know something about. Remember that for every large university with broadcast games, there are hundreds of smaller school wanna-be's that are trying to run programs in a way similar to the big boys.

 

In principle, I am in total agreement with the gist of your argument, but I have little doubt that the big schools make money on these programs. And while the AAUP would be the last body I would consider an unbiased researcher, no doubt any schools who don't fill their stadiums and get national TV money are losing money on football, and doing students, and in the case of state institutions- taxpayers, a disservice.

[K Wave Rider]

Another stomach turner for ya Cap....

 

100 million dollar vote buy...of course, by today's standards...pocket change

 

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/11/t...-care-vote.html

[K Wave Rider]

Update of interesting trend line and momo....about time to move that fan one notch lower?

[MrHanky]

Well, just fer the rest of us - don't forget...

 

Since when do I know what the hell I'm doing

 

I'm the dumbest guy here,just having a lucky year.Which is not hard in an up market.....

 

 

 

My PLAN is to ride out my muni's till year end then dump em.End of the year is usually strong for muni's.....then wait for the 200dma on the SPX and go long some hi yield closed end crap for the bounce.Plans usually never work out how they are suppose to though.

 

I plan on taking day trading alot more seriously in the coming months,I hope I can learn from all the incredible talent on this board.

 

As luck would have it,I still only had 2 losing closed trades all year....1 muni and 1 stock,both were nominal loses.I think I am at about 100 or so winners.But I am holding 6 or 7 muni positions currently that are 2 to 3% underwater.Every other closed trade was closed with a profit.

 

Got to give credit to my broker as well......50% or more of my profits this year were his trade ideas.

[jickiss]

jickiss is back!

 

 

 

jickiss is back!

 

 

and

 

well, all this Tough Talk about Football, Duhh, did ja play Ball in School??? Duuh?

 

here is a real tough guy story....waits until the Bear is 6 feet away, then shoots the Bear in the Heart, with an A-row!

poof, Bear is dead...

in

 

of all places......drum roll, JOISEY!

 

Joisey, the Wild Kingdom, Indeed....Watch out, Joisey Bears! Hey, Trader Joe!!!!

 

http://www.njherald.com/story/news/13BEARREPORT-web

[Dr.Correll]

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

 

any number of studies have shown that football and basketball programs always cost institutions big bucks, even when you factor in additional alumni donations during winning seasons. Elite college football and basketball programs merely constitute a free minor league system for the pro leagues, and the "students" don't even get a salary for wrecking their bodies. As far as the value of the scholarship, even if every player were like the small minority who actually study and graduate, the value received is far less than what they would have to be paid to do a similar amount of work. And, of course, maybe 1 in 10,000 actually ends up ever making any money at all as a professional player. National-level collegiate sports are a horrific scam, and should be abolished. There should be minor leagues that pay salaries, pension benefits, and health care, and taxpayers should not be supporting these things at the enormous expense to the university, which ends up cutting programs for hundreds or thousands of other students to fund these team sports.

 

College athletics with true student athletes are a whole different thing. I wholeheartedly support recreational activities for college students. Just not pre-professional training for tens of thousands of athletes who have absolutely no chance of competing at a professional level. They should find out sooner rather than later, with a minor league system.

 

 

This is an interesting take. As a student of a school that is a national powerhouse in college football I believe there are some things that need to be taken care of. I hate walking around campus seeing these "studs" doing nothing but talking to the ladies. The attention they get gives them a ego boost that they wouldnt trade for a salary. Masses of beautiful women just surround these kids at certains spots on campus. I'm hurrying to class and there just sitting there enjoying all there emintities at the expense of my tuition. These kids have private tutors, and the tutors have the test prior to the player taking the examination. Its just too easy for them. But hey, every national championship they get nets the school $7 million. The revenues from the Florida Gator brand are unbelievable. I am there for the education, and the possiblility of graduate school. I do like the football team, and I do travel to most away games, but I want that paper so I can continue my education, to actually acquire some true knowledge. Sorry about the spelling, using IE.

 

Correll

[DrStool]

Latest Story

Fed Running Short This Month – Professional Edition

November 20, 2009 By Lee Adler The Fed has a little problem. It has used up 70% of its monthly allowance for propping the Treasury market with a huge Treasury settlement yet to come. Click here to download complete report in pdf format (Professional Edition Subscribers). Try the Professional Edition risk free for thirty days. If, within that time, you don’t find the information useful, I will give you a full refund. It’s that simple. Click here for more information.

[DrStool]

http://forums.wallstreetexaminer.com/index...mp;#entry880280

[capitall]

Another stomach turner for ya Cap....

 

100 million dollar vote buy...of course, by today's standards...pocket change

 

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/11/t...-care-vote.html

 

Thanks for the link, KW. ABC News or that blogger there must have had to pay a lawyer to figure out what that law says. It certainly isn't written in everyday English. You're right about it being pocket change. The big problem for Main Street is not the fact that someone was paid to vote Yes to the bill Congress ends up with-- although that's awful too. Louisiana is the state I grew up in, and New Orleans is the city. I love that region with all my heart and would still be there if my health could tolerate the hot humid climate. And I still agree that this is not at all right.

 

The biggest problem for Main Street is the many hundreds of millions of dollars or more that are spent on lobbyists, campaign contributions, and various other (perhaps much of it untrackable) expenses by the health care industry-- money spent to make sure that any bill that does pass will end up being a B Job to the health care industry-- not a reform of it in order to help out Main Street.

 

I agree with Trader Joe here that private health insurance ought to be abolished altogether, because it's just a middle man who takes some of your money out of your pocket on your way to your doctor, and adds no value. I prefer private enterprise for most kinds of businesses, and let them make a killing off of luxuries, OK. But to make a literal "killing" by denying needed medical coverage to folks who have paid premiums for years, as the health insurance companies find ways to do, is beyond criminal. Michael Moore's movie Sicko documented these tactics well. Some of his movies I don't like so much, but Sicko was a masterpiece in my book.

 

Main Street is just screwed until we all get going on finding honest Congressional candidates who will pledge to accept no Special Interest Group campaign contributions and to work for Main Street.

[Drano]

These kids have private tutors, and the tutors have the test prior to the player taking the examination.

 

Correll

Yep. This is a true story: someone I knew was a grad student/Teaching Assistant at a university. One day, he was summoned to the office of the Dean. The Dean told him that he understood that one of the star football players had flunked the midterm for a (well known to be a gut) class that the T.A. graded papers for, and that flunking this class would make the player ineligible. The Dean told him that this was not a good thing for the university.

 

Needless to say, the T.A. gave the football player (who did not bother to come to classes the rest of the term) a gentleman's C. Not wanting to write anything libelous, remember that this story took place some years ago, and that the nationally known private university on the west coast certainly would be shocked... SHOCKED.... to think that anything like this ever could have happened there. Especially a school whose athletic director one day went on to become president.