Guest Icky Twerp Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 I don't happen to believe that "the Matrix" is evil (like the one in the movie), it is just cruelly objective, indifferent to individual humanity, and relentless in its self-perpetuation. <_< This superorganism has ways of signalling individual cels that they are no longer necessary. This turns off the apoptosic switch that sets the sub-organism on a course of self-destruction. If you believe in absolutes, and you are on the wrong side of the critical proposition, buh-bye. It is not enough "to rage against the dying of the light", you must also tough-mindedly adopt the skills necessary for survival: adapt. This is the test, the culling. A lot of silly, weak-minded, sheeple will not make it. It is not a question, ultimately, of ideology, but who will make it? Superpatriots? People with faith in God? In Democracy? In Microsoft/Intel? In short-selling? What a roller coaster ride it has become: from fear of the bomb in the 50s/safety of father-knows-best, to the can-do positivism of camelot in the 60s/turmoil to the moralistic malaise of the 70s/stagflation to the hedonistic "new day" in the 80s to the utterly amoral go-go 90s to the pre-apocalyptic 00s life is what happens while you're waiting for it to begin... personally, as seriously as I can take anything, I recommend golf: a good course teaches you the implacable active resistance of your challenge, the futility of your struggle, and the delight of trying anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiefywiefy Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 to make my point clear: i dont speak for the "everything is fine and wonderfull and we live in land of milk and honey" camp. One shouldnt walk thru life lie a fool, one should prepare for the future and make plans. Invest carefully and wisely. But: When you definitely know that the world will be in complete caos in a few years, what gives you faith into the future? I mean why do your very hard university exams, when you know that you wont find a job, why bring kids to life when you know they will live in a bad world, and so on and on. I am prepared for a long bear market, but i will not prepare myself for a mad max scenario, why should I, please explain? Because that i live 2 months longer than others, or what? Faith without thought and action is nothing more than glorified hope, be it "faith" in your political leaders, the economic or social systems. Faith is what has gotten us to this point in the first place. Problems on the way to the future will not be solved by faith, but by work and achievement. So you might as well live for your own benefit and enjoy it as GF has stated. I have found that the greater the struggle, the more satisfying the achievement, especially if accomplished with those you love. It is what living's all about. That and waiting for wndysrf avatar changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pee Brain Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 changed my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrawDaddy Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 What a post Pee Brain! Bravo, bravo! Is it safe to say that Stoolies are the kind that will go down fighting? Unsinkable and steadfast floaters? A log in a stormy sea of worry? Double & triple flushers? I believe that there are a lot more people that think like us than care to admit. Some people who truely believe these things behave like rabbits, they freeze solid and hope that the wolf can't see them. Others party like it's 1999 because they think the world is ending and since they can't do anything about it, well, they might as well be heavily medicated when it happens. While I suspect I'm one of the stoolies with the least amount of financial assets, as the father of three healthy children I consider myself wealthy and well prepared for the future because of them. Would I impose myself on my children in my retirement if they did not want me? I hope not, but all signs point to me being wanted and needed. I'm wondering if Vesselin is aware of the fact that just a generation ago, Americans took pride in taking care of their extended family. We HAD those ideals that only 'old-country' still has. In modern (American) society often times a single adult, living with and caring for their aging parents is considered a loser! That's just wrong and it's NOT the picture of America that Norman Rockwell paints! I'm sick of people living like there is no tommorrow. In fact, if you think there is no tommorrow, do the world a favor and OFF YOURSELF TODAY! I enjoy this board because stoolies constantly caution that you better be prepared for tommorrow (even though you might not like what sunrise brings). I believe that the destruction of certain markets and concepts will be like removing the pollutants of society. :grin: While stoolies often pause: to reflect; to think; and to dream. We're basically a group of do-ers. We wear our seat belts, we sort our garbage the recycle truck, we maintain our vehicles and we go to the doctor when needed. If life tries to run over a stoolie it better have steel radial snow tires for wheels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charliss Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Pee Brain, I am touched by your story- or should I say by your willingness to use your own story in order to make a point. It is our personal history that makes us real to others. When we use our personal history in a way to assist others or to facilitate their better understanding of their own story- when we do this, our story transcends its own particulars. Our personal history is put into service, it achieves a purpose, and this is something worth living for. Considering the way our world is set up; considering the ways in which appearances are more favored than realities, accepting the risk of being real is something most are fearful of doing. Best wishes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threadbare Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Wow, You guys said a mouthful! Fxfox, if the need arises, the stoolies are available for weddings and bar-mitzvahs too! Interesting thoughts about Darwinism, IchyTwerp. You describe things in an interesting way. But I hope the stoolies aren't confused about who will survive. It won't be the Conan the Barbarian tough predator types. Think Barney Fife. It'll be the survival of the most nervous. Stoolies likely can be differentiated from others in that they construct their vision of reality from seeking out anamolies, rather than rushing to dismiss them. Pee Brain--You've had quite a life, and its a testament to what strong motivation and courage can do. It sounds like it was a pretty good thing your Dad left when you were young. Awful what kids have to go through. I can honestly say that I made my money the old fashioned way. I married it. It was a tough struggle. While I was in the dating pool, I had to deny myself food to stay thin, learn to laugh at other's dumb jokes and pretend I was interested in their retarded philosophical meanderings. And the makeup! Every day at the crack of dawn I had to get up, haul myself into the bathroom and craft something pleasant looking out of the sad mess that mother nature left me with. But now I can look back and laugh while I consume bon bons, let myself go completely to hell, and spend my husband's money. Ahhh...the ruthless arithmetic of genetic survival. I won that one, but can I survive and thrive the coming financial Armegeddon. YES, YES...I BELIEVE I CAN! Oh, btw, Goldilocks--Didn't take offense about your remarks about who should or shouldn't have kids. I opted not to for many reasons, including health reasons, but I'm so happy now that it worked out that way. Raising kids in our culture is something I wouldn't do under any circumstances, but I sure applaud anyone who's doing it and doing it well. (Not very many can even if they want to) as you state. And your comments about the dogs being left home all day. There's a whole new industry devoted to psycho-pharmeceuticals for terrified fu**ed up dogs who are neglected in this way. They put them on prozac! What an insane world. Sometimes I think I'm going to start screaming and not be able to stop. What's next treating hamsters for attention deficit disorder? Oh stoolies, Listen, its a great thing to store gold, but remember the best gold is your personalities. You're all indispensable in a crisis because you have lots of heart. Even you grumpy ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpark Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 Pee brain - great story, I am glad to see that you were able to overcome adversity. It is my opinion that we are about to face a period of great adversity again. I don't know how much help bearish thinking is at such times, except that if things don't totally collapse, having some sort of stored wealth and survival stuff may make life somewhat easier. Even though I know that hard times will be coming, I can't make that go away, but I can plan and act in anticipation of a major depression. In any event, I won't give up without a solid effort! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BEARDRECH Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 to make my point clear: i dont speak for the "everything is fine and wonderfull and we live in land of milk and honey" camp. One shouldnt walk thru life lie a fool, one should prepare for the future and make plans. Invest carefully and wisely. But: When you definitely know that the world will be in complete caos in a few years, what gives you faith into the future? I mean why do your very hard university exams, when you know that you wont find a job, why bring kids to life when you know they will live in a bad world, and so on and on. I am prepared for a long bear market, but i will not prepare myself for a mad max scenario, why should I, please explain? Because that i live 2 months longer than others, or what? fx-with respect for your opinion: my mom had three children,sons: one born in 1932, the second ,me, in 1935, and the last iin 1938--if she had known about contraception and joined it with a pessimisim similar to yours i would't be here to say you're completely wrong--the europeans and japanese are, ageing inhospitable ,anti-life cultures of death--thats a few of the reasond why they have full mosques and empty churches and economies lsowly sinking into the abyss-- Once you hear the silence of absent children, you begin to hear the bells tolling for a futureless society-- bdrech yes yes i know there are not many mosques in japan but you get what i mean--japan wake up and open your doors to freedom loving north koreans and maybe your future will brighten somewhat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BEARDRECH Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 Bob, the fall of Rome took centuries - not a few years. True. But it also took months for the clipped coins to reach the frontiers, not microseconds. You mean - it's different this time? Regards, Vesselin it's worth considering the "information age" and it's potential velocity vess... this time it may be very different. best to consider all the possibilities. the human condition may never change, but the magnitude of change is incalcuable at this point in my opinion. age old axioms may in fact, need not apply. we'll see, it's too early in the game to make that call imo. jr velocity goes two ways at least--backwards,presumably a metaphor for destruction;also forwards,meaning construction--there were more people alive at the end of world war 2 than at the satart and this despite an estimated sixty(60) million deaths,not including the shortened lives of millions who managed to cheat death out of a few years a short while afterwards-- Nature is nothing if it isnt at least superabundant Hurricane Andrew h ad the destructive force, it is estimated , of at least 200(two hundred) hiroshima sized atomic bombs--- Sad,dismal though the universe is, for the most part,remember,you were created out of aeons of old pieces of exploding starddust,the most durable substance on the face of the ??????? Look at pictures of postwar berlin dresden etc and say to yourself as if it were happening today--this will never be rebuilt,alles is verloren--vernichtet-- then rub your rip van winklish eyes as if awakening from a nightmare-- Other execises in world history are available bdrech :cry: :cry: :cry: why is ther something rather than nothing? Freud the genius postulated the death wish--which reflects the average human being making a biological protest against the overwhelming ocmplexity of existence and thus compelling us to hope for an inorganic existence-- a stupid desire--as a stone casn you even think of getting laid????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yobob1 Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 The US culture is dominated by an unholy and tentative alliance of business, banking and government. Revolving doors keep the same people in power decade after decade. It is extremely unlikely that this can be changed at the voting booth without a severe upheaval in society precipitating that change. Even then, what at first appears to be the "salvation party" might prove to be something nobody wanted; a kind of Trojan Horse. Study carefully the motives of those aspiring to power. Dishonest money always creates dishonest government which spreads it's favor to those who support it. This is what we are currently saddled with. The wealth of this country has become too concentrated in too few of hands. This is the way it always plays out. At some point the proletariat rebel against those who sap the rewards of the individual's efforts for the gain of the "state". Our current state has appeased the proletariat by allowing them to "buy", on credit, everything their hearts desire. The sheeple are becoming uncomfortable with the yoke on their neck and the bit in their mouth, but aren't ready to rebel en masse at his point. They don't fully realize that they have been duped into believing that they could mortgage their future to live the "good" life today without consequences in the future. They are wrong. There is no free lunch. I have hope that at some point, at some level of destruction of the current circumstances, that something better can arise from the rubble that must occur. The basis for a new beginning has to be an honest "currency" that cannot be debased by fiat. If the US is to survive and once again prosper we must return to our Constitution and remove most of the baggage that has been layered onto that document over the last 200 years. Whether those two things can be achieved without a violent revolution is the unanswerable question. One can hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jrmfl Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 jr velocity goes two ways at least--backwards,presumably a metaphor for destruction;also forwards,meaning construction--there were more people alive at the end of world war 2 than at the satart and this despite an estimated sixty(60) million deaths,not including the shortened lives of millions who managed to cheat death out of a few years a short while afterwards-- velocity is a measure of extreme's in my opinion, if we had a stable economy, built on the soundness of our monetary system's... the perpetual boom/bust cycles would be non-exsistent. how quickly we monetize/securitize debt is a pathetic metric imo. perhaps all that's missing is a contextual base of reference. Nature is nothing if it isnt at least superabundant nature, like history does not care. it does as it needs, not as we want. the timescales are far grander... you can argue the intrinsic, but what we presume is a wink in time. it is certainly "superabundant", agreed. Hurricane Andrew h ad the destructive force, it is estimated , of at least 200(two hundred) hiroshima sized atomic bombs--- Sad,dismal though the universe is, for the most part,remember,you were created out of aeons of old pieces of exploding starddust,the most durable substance on the face of the ??????? or by god's hand... Look at pictures of postwar berlin dresden etc and say to yourself as if it were happening today--this will never be rebuilt,alles is verloren--vernichtet-- then rub your rip van winklish eyes as if awakening from a nightmare-- Other execises in world history are available another fine example of the human condition... a why we amass here. the bear's condition is one of the moral in an amoral world.... the search for truth in a sea of lies. we are brothers on these remenants of "exploding starddust". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jrmfl Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 some people need a guarantee that things will work out for them and that the world will be a NICE place. enjoyed reading your post immensely pb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jrmfl Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 one of the more astonishing things for me personally is the fragility of this mess. that and how the wind down doctrine... ie. "it takes time... perhaps a decade" is a generally accepted fate acompli. imo, nothing could be further from the truth. it appears too difficult to contemplate. i am not attempting to return this thread to one of timing, just find it curious that so many folks here think we'll muddle for a years. the venetian banking crisis took two days to unfold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pee Brain Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 if one thing speeds up the process, it will be debt. ultimately, most debtors do not control their own destiny. i had been thinking that it will take a long time to unwind, but i vivdly remember CA's real estate depression of early-1990's... man, that went down the tubes seemingly overnight. and 9/11 tipped the airlines over pretty quickly and w/o bailouts, most would be tummy up (maybe most are anyway)... the airlines are rather interesting, because many of us conduct our affairs along the lines of LUV (SW airlines), a profitable efficient concern, that is forced to compete against subsidized inefficent money holes. bottom line: i dont think extreme speculation, malinvestment and deficeit spending is the road to prosperity. the pendelum will swing back in favor of prudent specualtion (reasonable leverage-superadequate debt service coverage), prosperous investing, living below your means and saving for the future and potential emergencies, which is the straight and narrow road to wealth and prosperity.... Sybil has us rutting along in a ditch off of the side of the road - whether we continue along as the ditch gets bumpier or he flips us over, ultimately we have to stop, reconsider and redirect our course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fukui-san Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 fx-with respect for your opinion: my mom had three children,sons: one born in 1932, the second ,me, in 1935, and the last iin 1938--if she had known about contraception and joined it with a pessimisim similar to yours i would't be here to say you're completely wrong--the europeans and japanese are, ageing inhospitable ,anti-life cultures of death--thats a few of the reasond why they have full mosques and empty churches and economies lsowly sinking into the abyss-- Once you hear the silence of absent children, you begin to hear the bells tolling for a futureless society-- bdrech yes yes i know there are not many mosques in japan but you get what i mean--japan wake up and open your doors to freedom loving north koreans and maybe your future will brighten somewhat What a load of bullsh*t. Have you ever been to Japan? Based on your comments, I think not. The only reason that the US birth rate is hovering just below the replacement rate is due to (illegal) immigration and the high Hispanic birth rate. Revised Birth and Fertility Rates for the US: 2000, 2001 Despite widespread religious institution attendance, fanatical compared to other industrialized countries, the US birthrate is still the lowest it's been in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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