No Einstein Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 It is an interesting point of discussion that all of the polls that are taken in the US are among a population tied to land line telephones. Consider the student population and how many of them use only cell phones for communication. MTV's Rock The Vote and other efforts to energize young voters may just make all the difference at the polls: October 30, 2004 Young voters lean toward Democrats If student voters do turn out in significant numbers this year, it seems likely that John Kerry and the Democrats will be the main beneficiaries. Republicans have made significant inroads on many college campuses in recent years, but polls still point to a strong Democratic trend among young voters. A poll of 1,202 students by Harvard University's Institute on Politics shows students voting 52 percent for Kerry and 39 percent for President Bush. Plunger, I believe the cell phone issue is much larger, I am 56, I own my own home and all I have is a cell. I veiwed my land line as a waste of money so I dumped, my more affluent conservative friends and associates will keep their house phones because they can afford to waste their money. Many cost conscience individuals have dropped this unnecessary expense. Not just students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drano Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 rats as big as dogs roamed the island and were probably hunted by Homo floresiensis. mmmmm... rat. It's what's for dinner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozer Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 yes, and although I don't expect any knee-jerk dems to admit it, many of those students may well be voting TWICE....once in their school's precinct, and again at home, by absentee ballot....and there is nothing in the system to find or prevent this. Just yesterday, I read an interview with a Penn. poll-worker, and she was describing this double-voting by students. To be fair tho....the same percentage of repub students are surely doing the same thing hi-hat, I was moved by your earlier 2 posts of thoughts. I agree 100% with your description of our gov as unconstitutional and criminally-insane. and Plunger, you're comment about -US- goons using torture, and nobody marching in our streets about it, was also en pointe. It reminded me of a time years ago when Mpls. police held down demonstrators at a Minnehaha park protest about a tree, and literally RUBBED maced-qtips in their eyes as they were held immobile. First time I had ever heard of such a thing in the US. I was astounded....and badly shocked by the lack of outcry from the supposedly liberal community around me. To me, such actions on an -already immobilized- person are -torture-, plain and simple; and there should've been immediate OUTRAGE at such a thing. Police should've gone to PRISON for such assaults. But now it's -routine- ! Let's just keep a clear head tho, and remember that none of this began with shrub-co. No, it didn't just appear out of thin air 4 years ago. Remember that one HUNDRED of our OWN women and children were burned ALIVE, and by DEMS...yes, by the much-revered CLINTON and HIS goons. Millions of alleged "liberals" actually -cheered-, dismissing these victims as less-than-human, less-than-liberals, deserving of their fate, just because they happened to be christians living in a rural area. That's the day I knew our society was surely doomed; and the day I began abandoning the urban "liberal" culture I'd been a part of for 20 yrs. If you want to know where the divide, chasm, polarization, in this country came from; remember that the total lack of support from "liberals" during that week is what ENABLED the goons to commit such an atrocity on our own soil. Both dem and rep parties, at the top, are the SAME group of beyond-the-pale madmen....bought by the SAME financiers. To me, the only way to break this trend of madness is for -us- to first break the mental-conditioning which makes us falsely believe there are 2 "sides". There aren't. There are only normal folks like us who just want to be good people and be left alone; and then there are the power-mad control-obsessed psychotics; who rise to the top in ANY system of government. That's why I believe it is so wrong to think that "more of the same", i.e. MORE gov, will somehow solve our problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 It is an interesting point of discussion that all of the polls that are taken in the US are among a population tied to land line telephones. Consider the student population and how many of them use only cell phones for communication. MTV's Rock The Vote and other efforts to energize young voters may just make all the difference at the polls: October 30, 2004 Young voters lean toward Democrats If student voters do turn out in significant numbers this year, it seems likely that John Kerry and the Democrats will be the main beneficiaries. Republicans have made significant inroads on many college campuses in recent years, but polls still point to a strong Democratic trend among young voters. A poll of 1,202 students by Harvard University's Institute on Politics shows students voting 52 percent for Kerry and 39 percent for President Bush. Plunger, I believe the cell phone issue is much larger, I am 56, I own my own home and all I have is a cell. I veiwed my land line as a waste of money so I dumped, my more affluent conservative friends and associates will keep their house phones because they can afford to waste their money. Many cost conscience individuals have dropped this unnecessary expense. Not just students. Didn't you mean "Effluent?" Interesting that you described tham as more conservative and wealthy than most. This would serve to skew the results in favor of Bush in polling - but not serve to provide a true sampling of all eligible voters. Given this reality, it does seems that the Republicans need to either steal or cancel the elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Personally, I'm a believer in government with the consent of the governed -- and the Taiwanese are not consenting. I'd like to see a little intellectual consistency here -- if you're for the right of self-determination, and you say that maybe Western-style democracy isn't for everyone, then how can you turn around and say that a large population that has been living as an independent country for 50 years (with at least lip service to democracy) should now be sold out to be governed by a country for which they have nothing but enmity? and who will give them NO democracy? Good point, Drano. Before the 50 years you referred to, Taiwan was under Japanese occupation from 1895 to 1945. This is another point that separates Taiwan from mainland China. Japan is resented in mainland China for its atrocities in Nanjing and elsewhere. But on Taiwan, the older generation who actually lived under Japanese rule has very positive feelings toward the Japanese. The native Taiwanese regard the former Japanese colonial government as less corrupt than either the mainland Chinese communists, or the brutal Kuomintang who showed up in 1949. The Kuomintang engaged in their own massacres to pacify Taiwan (notably the notorious Feb 28th massacre, discussion of which was taboo for 40 years). Having been separated from China for 100 years, having its own dialect (Mandarin was imposed only after the Kuomingtang showed up), and having entered the free world trading system 30 years before mainland China did, Taiwan certainly can make a credible case for independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drano Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Butterfield, I agree with Powell on at least one thing: I'm "not proud" of lots of U.S. past actions either. Read about the history of Puerto Rico and you'll see what I mean, just for one small example. Horrifying. I'm hoping that there will be future actions I will be proud of. But, among other things, I'm not proud of us standing by while genocide goes on. We could at least be trying to get U.N. peacekeepers in to save some lives in the Sudan. Dying for lack of literally pennies' worth of electrolytic drinks, not to mention genocidal violence. I guess no one cares about a bunch of poor Africans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Einstein Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 While my opinion in these matters is not much regarded in these parts I offer it anyway. Let us not be concerned with the internal politics of a country that has been around for oh 5 or 10 thousand years or so and has managed to reincarnate itself many times during the period. I'm speaking of China, of course. Taiwan belongs to China - it always has and it always will. I for one do not wish to spill one drop of my children's blood nor spend one penny of my treasure in debate over the issue. The only reason we kept up the charade of an independent Taiwan was to continually goad the Chinese during the cold war. Now that they are our number one trading partners there is no longer any need for Taiwan as far as we are concerned. Do I give a crap about the Taiwanese? You better believe I do not. We Americans are so arrogant that we believe that we have invented everything including the best gol-danged method of gobernment and the best god and the best of everything else including pie. And we believe that the rest of the world should oughta cow-tow to us because we are a nuklear-armed super-power. My friends - he whom the Gods would destroy they first make proud. Or, pride goeth before the fall, or Hubris kills. Take your pick. We are an immature nation populated by a bunch of children. Hell we were founded by immature children, who, because they couldn't have their own way, picked up their ball and split. Then we made up a history that made everyone sound like heroes. Right. Well Europe has its fairy tales why shouldn't we have ours? So let us not concern ourselves with China - they seem to get along quite well with or without us. In general I agree with almost all of your post. However I beleve that to reason that "Taiwan belongs to China - it always has and it always will." is a little flawed. We could use the same reasoning to justify myriad of instances where because something used to be part of something it still is. I say the reason Taiwan belongs to China is because NOW they are powerful enough to make it happen. and I completly agree that we need to keep our noses out of that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wndysrf Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Anybody want to talk about the stock market??? If Kerry wins decisively, how will the stock market react? Positively because of the removal of the terror premium? Positively because of a fresh approach to Iraq? Or negatively because of valuation??? If China invades Taiwan, how will the Shanghai index perform? Will it rally like the U.S. Markets did on the onset of war? Or will the Shanghai Index break down to new 4-year lows? How about the Taiwan Index??? Any opinions??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Amen Doze, Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Einstein Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Din't you mean "Effluent?" Hey, so I can't spell, I am No Einstein, Hey, so I can't spell,after all, I am No Einstein, besides ,it's the "thought" that counts :grin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 While my opinion in these matters is not much regarded in these parts I offer it anyway. Let us not be concerned with the internal politics of a country that has been around for oh 5 or 10 thousand years or so and has managed to reincarnate itself many times during the period. I'm speaking of China, of course. Taiwan belongs to China - it always has and it always will. I for one do not wish to spill one drop of my children's blood nor spend one penny of my treasure in debate over the issue. The only reason we kept up the charade of an independent Taiwan was to continually goad the Chinese during the cold war. Now that they are our number one trading partners there is no longer any need for Taiwan as far as we are concerned. Do I give a crap about the Taiwanese? You better believe I do not. We Americans are so arrogant that we believe that we have invented everything including the best gol-danged method of gobernment and the best god and the best of everything else including pie. And we believe that the rest of the world should oughta cow-tow to us because we are a nuklear-armed super-power. My friends - he whom the Gods would destroy they first make proud. Or, pride goeth before the fall, or Hubris kills. Take your pick. We are an immature nation populated by a bunch of children. Hell we were founded by immature children, who, because they couldn't have their own way, picked up their ball and split. Then we made up a history that made everyone sound like heroes. Right. Well Europe has its fairy tales why shouldn't we have ours? So let us not concern ourselves with China - they seem to get along quite well with or without us. In general I agree with almost all of your post. However I beleve that to reason that "Taiwan belongs to China - it always has and it always will." is a little flawed. We could use the same reasoning to justify myriad of instances where because something used to be part of something it still is. I say the reason Taiwan belongs to China is because NOW they are powerful enough to make it happen. and I completly agree that we need to keep our noses out of that one. Uh...didn't America belong to the Indians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiHat Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 While i'm thinking of this i would like to add this addendum to Market post i made before.............the frenzied bull-dicking.......came on heavy...... right after just a couple days of Dow.......hitting new LOW of year. Now 72 hours later........everything is wonderful. How bi-polar is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Einstein Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Anybody want to talk about the stock market??? If Kerry wins decisively, how will the stock market react? Positively because of the removal of the terror premium? Positively because of a fresh approach to Iraq? Or negatively because of valuation??? If China invades Taiwan, how will the Shanghai index perform? Will it rally like the U.S. Markets did on the onset of war? Or will the Shanghai Index break down to new 4-year lows? How about the Taiwan Index??? Any opinions??? I do not believe it will crash as the PPT will continue to "opperate". It may go up big if the shorts panic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 The markets? They're rigged. They'll go up and down real fast, a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drano Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Anybody want to talk about the stock market??? If Kerry wins decisively, how will the stock market react? Positively because of the removal of the terror premium? Positively because of a fresh approach to Iraq? Or negatively because of valuation??? If China invades Taiwan, how will the Shanghai index perform? Will it rally like the U.S. Markets did on the onset of war? Or will the Shanghai Index break down to new 4-year lows? How about the Taiwan Index??? Any opinions??? YES. Well, that's a big "IF" for your first question. Possibilities: Big Kerry win Big Bush win Small Kerry win Small Bush win Nothing known till court cases settled. Probabilities of each: insufficient data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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