Let's cut the crap

[NV 375]

Haven't read the entire thread yet, so I apoligize if this info already has been posted

 

But it was asked who's Don Stott.

 

Colorado Gold

[RockLedge]

Fannie Mae Planning $12B Utah Infusion

 

The quest for affordable housing in Utah got a $12 billion booster shot Monday.

Fannie Mae, the nation's largest source for mortgage funds, announced a new investment plan for the state that will help provide affordable home ownership and rental opportunities for as many as 100,000 individuals and families over the next five years.

"Having a stable home is critical, whether you own or rent," Lt. Gov. Olene Walker said during a morning news conference at the state Capitol. "This investment of $12 billion will help these families find the stability they're looking for."

Monday's announcement comes on the heels of an initial investment of $7 billion that was made when Fannie Mae opened its state office in 1999. That, too, was a five-year plan, but the investment goal was reached 18 months early and provided affordable housing opportunities for 66,000 Utah families.

For that reason, Fannie Mae Chairman and CEO Franklin D. Raines is optimistic about the future.

 

Rest of article, from the SL Trib.

 

This timely infusion is nothing more than a prop for a bad market that's getting worse everyday.

 

Construction builders no longer hire white folks... all mexican cheap labor.

 

Landlords with rental units are already getting crushed as it is from all the "Olympic media housing" . Thousands of units already brought online and people are leaving the state in droves.

 

Half of the folks that retired from my work (which is an oil company) in the last few years,.... are back to work at some crummy job, working for half the wages.

 

Yobob,.. you got it right.

[anoscope]

Inflation/deflation....who cares.

if we are in deflation, then if you just hold your dollars in cash, a position (quote from BB), then the cash will buy 'more' for the buck later. right?

[threadbare]

Goldilocks, I'm an evolutionary dead end, and proud of it. Right on, about women's work. The women's movement took a very wrong turn by applauding women who worked outside the home while castigating those who chose to raise kids and stay home. .

 

I worked in daycare centers in my early twenties and saw way too many single women with two kids dragging themselves in, half dead, to pick up their kids, at the end of a hard day.

 

The idea that woman must "work" has created a terrific amount of pain and suffering in children, broken up families and made stuttering nervous wrecks out of too many men. Not to mention the shattering of community that takes place when noone's home to hold up the homefront. I could go on and on. It's a scam. period.

 

I love it when certain men give unqualified unquestioning support for even the most radical forms of feminism. Radical feminists refer to this type as a "worm boy". Neat hey? Can't win with this bunch.

 

Though many ideas within the ideology have great merit, many of the leaders of the movement are spoiled middle and upper class brats who don't speak for most women, and have no feeling for the class issues that override and underpin ALL of our lives. They are unfeminine and inhumane.

[richmtn]

As to the K-Winter, that's all well and good, but my reading indicates there are cycles 1 or even 2 magnitudes larger than the K-Wave. (think dark ages here) It's very tough to document because of the lack of data that goes back thousands or even hundreds of years. I happen to think we are in a cycle at least 1 or more probably 2 magnitudes larger than the K cycle.

I assume you are familiar with this materia but on the off chance your not...

There are a number of books out there on these subjects, some are great reading. Makes you think because the writers aren't confined to the commonly repeated history or conventional interpretations.

 

Ages in Chaos

Ages in Chaos reconstructs the political and cultural histories of the nations of the world starting from the physical catastrophes described in the book of Exodus and Egyptian documents. This reconstruction places before the reader this question:

Are six hundred years missing in Israel's history, or have six hundred ghost years crept into Egyptian History?

By Immanuel Velikovsky

Those of you not familiar check it out.

[Sphinxter]

Bob, the fall of Rome took centuries - not a few years.

True. But it also took months for the clipped coins to reach the frontiers, not microseconds.

You mean - it's different this time?

 

Regards,

Vesselin

it's worth considering the "information age" and it's potential velocity vess...

 

this time it may be very different.

 

best to consider all the possibilities.

 

the human condition may never change, but the magnitude of change is incalcuable at this point in my opinion.

 

age old axioms may in fact, need not apply.

 

we'll see, it's too early in the game to make that call imo.

Here's something to consider. Each culture on earth has its "qualities". Some are exceptionally violent while others are generous. Some are famous for being pragmatic, while others are famously profligate.

 

What are the mish-mash melting pot USA citizens famous for? I argue that we have no single trait or historical grounding to underpin our culture.

 

As a result, I would submit that our defining characteristics are flexibility and adaptability. We pursue opportunities fast and hard and can change on a dime.

 

Consider that we went from a net creditor nation built over many generations by people like my grandparents who never owed anyone anything (ever!), to a net debtor nation without parallel in ONLY TWO GENERATIONS.

 

This is light speed from an aggregate cultural perspective. It is really profound. Is it not possible then, that such a culture could also support a faster than usual K-wave cycle?

 

Ominously, if this hypothesis is correct, our culture happens to be ~30% of the entire world GDP and, more ominously, the purveyor of the bulk of the worlds reserve currencies.

 

That giant sucking sound Ross Perot worried about could actually be centered right here in the good old USA.

[Guest yobob1]

Women had to be put on the treadmill to support our government's ever growing appettite and to feed the fractional reserve monster. Once again I refer all to the Grandfather Economic Report by Hodges.

 

The harder everyone fights to gain while on the treadmill, only increases the size and velocity of the treadmill. The only way to fight the beast is to step off the treadmill. Find ways to minimize income and reduce any activity that generates tax revenues. Being self employed gives some insights that those who receive paychecks never consider. When self employed as your income goes up so must your quarterly tax payments, which count as income, thereby increasing your income further and your subsequent tax bill. A never ending spiral sending increasing percentages of your income into government hell. It has taken me three years to slowly step off the treadmill, but I should be able to break the cycle this year. Then it's all downhill for them.

 

History is pockmarked with long periods of time where culture seems to vanish along with many of the technological advances from the previous "up" cycle. The Romans mastered concrete. The use of concrete disappeared for hundreds of years after the Romans disappeared. Often these "down" times are accompanied by population declines. I think we are entering the downslope of one those long periods of decline. The power of a larger cycle turning down along with the K wave could give a sense of unexpected acceleration; i.e. time compression. Just when man thinks he is the master of the universe, the universe slaps him in the head with a cold fish.

[Goldilocks]

Near this spot

Are deposited the Remains of one

Who possessed Beauty

Without Vanity,

Strength without Insolence,

Courage without Ferocity,

And all the Virtues of Man

Without his Vices.

This Praise, which would be unmeaning flattery

If inscribed over Human Ashes,

Is but a just tribute to the Memory of "Boatswain," a Dog

Who was born at Newfoundland,

May, 1803,

And died at Newstead Abbey

Nov. 18, 1808.

 

- Well said Mr. Byron. Well said. I have never met anyone I can say the same of. Sometimes simplicity is amazingly complex in it's achievements.

 

 

Only by living with Nature and through our conscience can we achieve humanity worth noting. Not by ignoring and destroying them both.

[Guest]

It won't be any different this time. Yes, the magnitude will be huge. But it will take decades; it won't be over just in a few years.

If it takes decades for the downfall to really assert itself, won't this coincide nicely with the destruction of the "social security" system, public employee pensions, and the like?

 

Retirees will have to sell their stocks in order to pay for living expenses, the government plans will all run out of money, and it is possible the big corporations will either be bankrupt by pension obligations or will elect to end their programs entirely. Could a 20 year bull market be followed by a 20 year bear market?

 

As the boomers die off there will be more housing on the market, which should lower prices in all areas. When the boomers stop working their will be less money going into government treasuries in the form of taxes. At the same time, boomers will be demanding more in medical care, free drugs, financial aid programs for the elderly, etc.

 

Which group in America will be made to suffer more.... the aging boomers, or everybody younger than them who will be forced to support a huge group of people who will essentially become welfare recipients? Will people put up with 80% of their income being confiscated by wealth transfer programs?

 

The next 10-15 years should be very interesting.

[Guest yobob1]

Obviously we need to knock off all the old geezers (that's defined as anyone slightly older than I am) now and confiscate their assets. Other wise the kid flipping burgers at McD will only be taking home about 20% of his pay.

 

Throw in the fact of an oil production peak in this decade and yes the next couple of decades just look like oodles of fun.

 

The only thing that would change the outcome significantly is a mass die-off. But that too is fraught with all sorts of nasty implications.

[joestool]

Which group in America will be made to suffer more.... the aging boomers, or everybody younger than them who will be forced to support a huge group of people who will essentially become welfare recipients? Will people put up with 80% of their income being confiscated by wealth transfer programs?

 

Which group represents the largest voting block? There's your answer.

We are well on the road to an upcoming class warfare between the generations of baby boomers and those left in their wake of greed, debt and destruction. The aging baby boomer demographic will be by far the most important voting block for any future elected official and this voting block will attempt to legislate for itself every advantage possible. The younger, working minority will suffer tyranny of the majority until it becomes no longer tolerable and then you will see things becoming unglued.

I figure around year 2013 being about the time when the full wave of social security and pension programmes reach maximum stress and it becomes clear to all that future obligations can no longer be met. Give it 1-2 national election cycles at most beyond that and Tocqueville's warnings for the future in Democracy in America will come to pass:

 

"If ever the free institutions of America are destroyed, that event may be attributed to the omnipotence of the majority, which may at some future time urge the minorities to desperation and oblige them to have recourse to physical force. Anarchy will then be the result, but it will have been brought about by despotism. "

-- Tocqueville, Book I Chapter XV, Tyranny of the Majority

[StrawDaddy]

This time is no different. The Kondratieff winter takes averagely 20 years to reach a bottom. Anybody who thinks that this time it can do it in just 5 short years (assuming it started in 2000), is seriously deluding himself. In fact, this time it might take even longer than usual, because of the inflationary Fed policy.

 

Things are not as bad as they seem. They are worse. We won't get a fast crash - that would have been too good. We'll get a prolonged, painful decline, which will devastate both bulls and bears alike.

 

Regards,

Vesselin

Here's some data provided from various sources regarding life expectancy:

 

1900: life expectancy 47 years

2003: life expectancy 72.5 years

 

- some actuaries project that between 2033 & 2182 life expectancy in Europe, Japan and the U.S. could be 85 years old.

 

Most would agree that wealth and savings (or perhaps debt would be more appropriate for this site) grow exponentially with the age of a person.

 

While I will agree that history repeats itself I am hesitant to rely on projections based only on linear data. While the concelp of the Kondrafieff cycle intends to inlcude non-linear data, that is, the rise and fall of civilizations, one constant is that each new cycle involves a larger population of humans.

 

There is one theme that runs throughout all cycles: While mankind continues to enjoy progess in all areas of survival, with each new advance comes a better method of self-destruction.

 

While Vesselin suggests that the K-Wave could be more prolonged, looking around at the effects of scientific advancements upon life expectancies, I would agree. And while Hypertiger suggests that the whole thing is about to rot to dust, looking around at the effects of modern war, I would agree.

 

In other words: FLIP A COIN or watch Docs cycles and try to catch the moves

[StrawDaddy]

Obviously we need to knock off all the old geezers (that's defined as anyone slightly older than I am) now and confiscate their assets. Other wise the kid flipping burgers at McD will only be taking home about 20% of his pay.

 

Throw in the fact of an oil production peak in this decade and yes the next couple of decades just look like oodles of fun.

 

The only thing that would change the outcome significantly is a mass die-off. But that too is fraught with all sorts of nasty implications.

There is already a proven technology that will allow us to recyle all manner of waste into basic minerals, powdered carbon, natuarl gas, water and OIL.

 

Through materials science, oil may in fact become a renewable resource.

 

The only real pollutant will prove to be radiation and improper waste disposal.

 

(ALL) Garbage will become gold. Every container, every bit of packaging material, medical waste, every grain of polluted soil, every contaminated stream, all will become a source of reclaimation. It's going to be a big industry until all the pollutants are mined. It's a future bull market.

 

It won't be until populations cease to grow will we reach a stage of homeostasis with our ecology.

[brian4]

Goldilocks-Agreed- Dog spelled backwards is and always will be "GOD"!

[fxfox]

After having read this topic, please could somebody tell me why i shouldnt kill myself immediately?

 

This doom and gloom thing is something for people who are close to their retirement, for the young stools it is poison, it depresses the young and takes their faith into the future away.

 

young stools, listen to me:

 

If you dont wanna end up as a bump under the bridge than stop reading this thread!

 

i am not kidding.