Sphinxter Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Does anybody have any great ideas on how to short the bond markets? Putz? Treasony Bonds vs. Corporate paper? I'd like to be prepared when rates go back up later this summer.... Any and all help would be appreciated - even if it's simply pointing to another location where I can begin my research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 T-bond and T-note futures are one way (very liquid). Rydex has a fund that trades inverse to bond prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregFokker Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 You can also buy call options on yields. The RYDEX fund symbol I think (may be wrong) is RYJUX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinxter Posted March 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 MH and Fokker - thanks (by the way Fokker, I saw your true avatar the other day up for a few minutes - did you try life as the Oyster but found it wanting...?). As one who has recently dumped his long-time borker, I'm finding the on-line borkerage options to be as confusing as picking a long-distance provider. If I want to have access to a wide array of fucutures and shorting opportunities, is there one good place to go? Ameritrade? Scottrade? Firefly Trading? Whose got good access to product and fast, reliable executions? Thanks in advance, Sphinxter (aka "lame-dog, puker of raisins" on the prairie) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregFokker Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Savoring my anonymity. Finding symbols is a cinch. I use a bandaid solution: www.pcquote.com for option chains, www.yahoo.com/r/sq for most stock symbol searches, and waterhouse.com for search mutual fund symbols. And, if I'm totally lost, www.google.com. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metamucil Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 Bull trends can often outlast your solvency.....if short.... Think back to 1999........and try remember what it may have been like trying to short the equity bull....... I am salivating, too........but only hop onto established trends over multi-week timeframes. Very profitable. One contrarian and conservative strategy is to long RYGBX, which is still rising.....then you will be following it daily, with coin....and thus allow for spotting a trend reversal with a more acute sense of direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Profunds' RRPIX is 125% inverse bond prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogBoy Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 "Think back to 1999........" I think we're more like at MAR 00 in the Bond mkt. It's gonna crack soon and it'l be like a landslide. Playing it will be much like playing the stock Bear and in the early stages there will likely be very sharp declines and rally of hope as far as the eye can see. The early stages of a Bear market are the EASIEST money. The highest leverage method of playing it is to open a futures acct at one of these brokers: www.cleartrade.com www.myfuturesonline.com Here is a link to the option chain for the 30 year bond: 30 Year Bond Option Chain I would recommend the Sep 03 104-00 PUT: 104-00P 0-47 0-47 0-47 0-47s 15:01 734.38 currently at $734.38 per contract. The first major drop in the crap pile should be to about 100 which will cause the 104 put to go to about $4000 in value. Not a bad trade huh ? Good luck and happy hunting !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphinxter Posted March 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Thank you DogBoy!!! I will be looking into your recommendations. Thanks for the specifics and links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogBoy Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Your quite welcome. You might look into some Comex Gold Calls as well. You can trade them in the same account. The leverage with Option on Futures is incredible. You need very little money to play. It's like being able to sit down at the $1000 chip black jack table and playing just like you had real dough. And don't listen to the armageddon types who say the futures markets will collapse. If the futures markets collapse you likely won't be able to enjoy your profits anyway. People will get wiped out for doing stoolpid things like shorting gold or going long on bonds at a 40 year peak blow off top. But the futures markets will go on. And the other cool thing is that bond futures are traded in my home town -- Chicago --- and I've actually met some of the people that work there as my office is right around the corner from the CBOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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