DrStool Posted April 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 Bullish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_Slim Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 On 4/17/2020 at 11:12 AM, fxfox said: ... while the Dow closes at 66,666.66 Where's Shorty?! 😀 Miss those guys: Beardrech, Shorty, Drano, Madness , Hank, LeeWhee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxfox Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 1 hour ago, DrStool said: Bullish. We will see where we are 12 months from now. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxfox Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 This question is from Sven Henrich, a very good guy frtom twitter: “There seem to be building expectations for a vaccine or treatment to arrive shortly for a virus that appears to be continuing to surprise with its effectiveness, adaptiveness, infectiousness & persistence. How can you have a vaccine for something we have yet to fully understand?“ We have some experts here at the stool. Could please someone help regarding this valid question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisFit Kid Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 15 minutes ago, fxfox said: We will see where we are 12 months from now. 😉 Bullish is very concentrated in 5 stocks...... How does the The S&P 5 sound? >: I miss Shorty, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy beach Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 57 minutes ago, T_Slim said: Where's Shorty?! 😀 Miss those guys: Beardrech, Shorty, Drano, Madness , Hank, LeeWhee I'm hoping most of them show back up when the S&P retests 666. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy beach Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 12 minutes ago, fxfox said: This question is from Sven Henrich, a very good guy frtom twitter: “There seem to be building expectations for a vaccine or treatment to arrive shortly for a virus that appears to be continuing to surprise with its effectiveness, adaptiveness, infectiousness & persistence. How can you have a vaccine for something we have yet to fully understand?“ We have some experts here at the stool. Could please someone help regarding this valid question? We have been working on a SARS vaccine since 2002 with limited success. As of 2019 they were making some progress so we can learn from that since SARS-CoV-2 is very similar. But it has been extremely difficult. One the earlier vaccines created antibodies as expected but upon challenge by live virus the inoculated animals died a terrible death due to cytokine storms. Another attempt used live attenuated virus which was successful until it reverted to wild type and cause the infection we were trying to prevent. Now we have a new improved live attenuated virus - please you can try it before me But we have other fronts like an RNA vaccine which has worked in animals but never until now been tested on humans. So very brave humans took the RNA vaccine a few weeks ago. We'll see how that goes. I'm not optimistic. We still don't have a vaccine for HIV. Some viruses are very difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxfox Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 5 minutes ago, sandy beach said: I'm hoping most of them show back up when the S&P retests 666. Ultra bullish! 😂 just kidding 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxfox Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, sandy beach said: We have been working on a SARS vaccine since 2002 with limited success. As of 2019 they were making some progress so we can learn from that since SARS-CoV-2 is very similar. But it has been extremely difficult. One the earlier vaccines created antibodies as expected but upon challenge by live virus the inoculated animals died a terrible death due to cytokine storms. Another attempt used live attenuated virus which was successful until it reverted to wild type and cause the infection we were trying to prevent. Now we have a new improved live attenuated virus - please you can try it before me But we have other fronts like an RNA vaccine which has worked in animals but never until now been tested on humans. So very brave humans took the RNA vaccine a few weeks ago. We'll see how that goes. I'm not optimistic. We still don't have a vaccine for HIV. Some viruses are very difficult. Thanks a lot Sandy, very interesting! The following are 2 ansers to Sven Henrich: „what most people fail to understand, and which is AVOIDED by the Press, is that prior attempts at a SARS/MERS vaccine resulted in the inoculated lab animals dying from an immunity over-reaction when "challenged" with the live virus“ „They rolled out a vaccine for the 1957 H2N2 within months. It worked, and flu viruses like that are notorious for rapidly evolving. And that’s 60 years ago’s technology. That’s when they figured out you could grow them on chicken eggs.“ could you please say something about that? The first goes in line with what you have said above. The second one, I mean is it really true what that guy says about H2N2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy beach Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, fxfox said: Thanks a lot Sandy, very interesting! The following are 2 ansers to Sven Henrich: „what most people fail to understand, and which is AVOIDED by the Press, is that prior attempts at a SARS/MERS vaccine resulted in the inoculated lab animals dying from an immunity over-reaction when "challenged" with the live virus“ „They rolled out a vaccine for the 1957 H2N2 within months. It worked, and flu viruses like that are notorious for rapidly evolving. And that’s 60 years ago’s technology. That’s when they figured out you could grow them on chicken eggs.“ could you please say something about that? The first goes in line with what you have said above. The second one, I mean is it really true what that guy says about H2N2? The first statement is regarding the cytokine storm I described above. He's talking about the same experiment I was. The virus SARS infects innate immune cells like dendritic cells which in turn over express signal molecules called cytokines. In vaccinated people the secretion of cytokines is too high and it makes the immune system overreact which in turn causes acute respiratory syndrome (ARDS) and lung injury resulting in death. Lung injury itself is a complex topic as in includes the renin–angiotensin system and activity of ACE2 as well and injury by heme groups (which wasn’t fully understood until 2015-2019). As to his second point, SARS-CoV-2 is a single stranded RNA virus. Why is that important? Because single stranded RNA viruses mutate easily. They create a mutation about once per week per lineage. And we now have many thousands of lineages out there of SARS-CoV-2 as the virus expands and each lineage mutates once per week. And it only started in Nov 2019! So a year or two from now any vaccine that can generate antibodies that recognizes todays SARS-CoV-2 may no longer recognize this new viral form. In fact it may even trigger antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) which is where antibodies against an older version of the virus actually causes your immune system to not effectively fight a newer mutated version of the virus leading to a much worse outcome on second challenge. You see ADE with Dengu for example. The reason RNA viruses mutate faster than DNA viruses is because DNA is double stranded and the second strand works as an error correction template. If a mutation occurs in DNA the second strand can be used to repair the error. You can say using RNA instead of DNA is an adaptation for viruses because it allows them to evolve faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy beach Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 Here are a couple of papers about ADE: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6290032/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3057165/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy beach Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 This paper describes the renin–angiotensin system and activity of ACE2 in SARS: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7079827/ The role of heme and iron in Lung injury in ARDS: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4796260/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4772369/ https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1164/ajrccm-conference.2019.199.1_MeetingAbstracts.A2079 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy beach Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3335060/ Another attempt the vaccine reverted into the live virus: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4626112/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisFit Kid Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 The Stool Weekend concerts (1 after and 1 with Keith Moon) Live from Germany 1981 Live From Texas 1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorma Posted April 18, 2020 Report Share Posted April 18, 2020 Well I was going to say something but the gist of Sandy's comments and links puts a different light on things. Mostly, everybody want's to wish it all away. Or they think it's just a matter of will, to make things right, and even better. Mostly from those whose pride is on on a galactic scale. Oh yea. I was going to say that Elon is set to send two astronauts to the space station 5/27. MAGA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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